James Comey | From the FBI to “Westport” | Say More…

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James Comey:00:00:00

And he came running after me and said, dude, I can't do it to you.

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00:00 James Comey joins Story & Craft

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And I said, what do you,

what do you mean, Dave?

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And he said, well, you were asleep.

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And I, I erased a bunch of words and

type fuck throughout your term paper.

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Like, Oh my God, what is wrong with you?

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Announcer: Welcome to story and craft.

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Now here's your host, Marc Preston.

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Marc Preston: Okay.

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We're back.

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You and I together.

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Glad to have you here.

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Uh, if this is your first

time, thank you very much for.

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Checking out the show.

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Glad to have you.

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Uh, and, uh, just in case you hear a

little bit of noise in the background

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and maybe a little scratching, a

little fidgeting, uh, we have a

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brand new golden retriever puppy,

a 10 weeks old ranger is his name.

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And if you've been listening to the

show for a while, you know, we used to

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have a golden retriever, a wonderful

little guy named buddy passed away

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a little over a year ago, just.

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But I was chatting with my kids and we

kind of decided it's time to time to get

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another friend to have around the house.

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And, uh, of course, with them

all being in college, it's

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nice to have somebody around.

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So I'm not all by myself, but man,

I tell you what, I totally forgot

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how much energy these puppies have.

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Like holy cow Just a ton of energy, uh,

of course coming to you today as always

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from the beautiful beaches of south padre

island Texas which right now we've got

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a tropical storm going on So it's been

kind of quiet the last few minutes or so.

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That's why i'm recording right now Uh,

but we've had a lot of rain and crazy

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stuff coming in from the gulf But you

know, it's pretty chill overall and

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there's nothing like walking a puppy

and you know Like 40 mile an hour winds.

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It's, it's truly an experience.

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Uh, now today we have a great episode.

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I am so jazzed to bring this to you.

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Uh, James Comey, former FBI director.

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You probably heard a lot about him

a few years ago, back during the

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previous presidential administration.

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He's got a great personal story and I'm

happy to be able to bring that to you.

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to you.

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If you've seen the movie, the Comey rule

with Jeff Daniels, who played James Comey.

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It was a really great story about how he

became the FBI director and the things he

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went through during his tenure at the FBI.

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You know, it's really interesting to

speak with someone who's actually sat

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one on one, uh, for a dinner with the

former president as well as navigated

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a lot of pretty high profile, uh, stuff

for lack of a better way of putting it.

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He has a new novel out, a new

crime novel called Westport.

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It is fiction, but of course, he has

a lot of experience to draw from.

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In fact, he drew some inspiration

from his daughter for one of

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the characters in the book.

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It's great to talk about his creative

works, his time working in the FBI, and

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just Kind of, kind of what's a story.

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Even if you've seen the movie, The

Call Me Rule, there's a lot more info

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we cover, uh, in this episode, which

was really a pleasure to bring to you.

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Uh, don't forget

everything story and craft.

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Head to storyandcraftpod.

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com.

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All the socials are up there.

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You can find out more about our guests.

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Uh, also if you would, if you do me one

little favor, I would be so appreciative.

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Right now, pick up your phone or whatever

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Like the episodes, follow the

show, leave a review if you would.

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It just makes it a lot easier whenever

we have a new episode for you to

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know, well, there's a new episode out.

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Also helps other people

discover story and craft.

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And I appreciate you being here.

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And it is a real pleasure to bring you

some great conversations like today.

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It's James Comey Day right

now on story and craft.

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03:34 James Comey's Early Life and Career

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Hello, Marc, how are you doing?

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Well, how are you doing today?

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Doing great.

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Thank you.

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It's a beautiful

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James Comey: day in Virginia.

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I hope it's beautiful wherever you are.

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Marc Preston: I am at the uh, southern

tip of Texas in a little island

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called South Padre Island, and it is

hot, it is humid, and, but I'm not

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complaining because my AC went out

this weekend, and we just got it fixed.

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Fixed.

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So I'm enjoying it.

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Not being 90 degrees in here right now.

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So and we have a nine week old, a golden

retriever puppy and he was not happy.

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He wanted to stay downstairs where we have

a tile floor down here, a single layout.

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I'm like, so it's been an ordeal.

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I'm like, wait a minute.

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It's Monday.

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It's a good Monday.

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So I get to chat with you and

feeling good about it, but it's

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just past lunchtime your time.

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Did you already have a

chance to grab some lunch?

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James Comey: I haven't yet.

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My, A couple of my grandchildren

are outside playing with my wife,

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and then I told them we would have

a late lunch after Pop was finished.

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Marc Preston: What's

on the menu for today?

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James Comey: I think it's going to be

grilled cheese, uh, with grapes that

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I, that we cut, because we're not going

to make sure their parents know we're

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cutting their grandchildren's grapes.

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And, uh, I don't know.

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Could be Cheetos.

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Pop really spoils them.

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How old are your grandchildren?

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Marc Preston: Five and three.

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Oh, okay, so they're still very young.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I guess.

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Yeah, they're still in the

gotta cut the grape phase.

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Yeah.

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Now, what's it like to now have

a work of fiction out there?

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Is this, this your second

fiction book, am I correct?

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It's my second, so

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it

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James Comey: feels a

little familiar to me.

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My imposter complex is still active.

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I think it's, it's uh,

drifting away a little bit.

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But, uh, it's um, I didn't

know the rhythm of fiction.

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Non fiction, at least the books I did,

non fiction books, I wrote them and then

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a few months later they were published.

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But in the world of fiction, I've

discovered, as you surely know, that

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you write books well in advance.

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I'm actually in the process of

finishing The book for next May.

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So part of the challenge of talking about

Westport is my head is in the next book

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and actually starting to think already

about what the fourth book will look like.

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So that's a strange sequence.

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Marc Preston: Former FBI folk are not

necessarily known for their creative.

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The idea of dotting the I's crossing

the T's black and white, you know,

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was it a stretch for you or did it

just, was it just a valve opening?

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Like, okay, this is something

I've always wanted to do.

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And was there a creative itch

always there to do fiction?

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James Comey: Yeah, it's a great question.

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And my answer when I was first

asked about it, as I was finishing

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my second nonfiction book was,

no, I've never wanted to do that.

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And I would never do that.

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And I think I, if I'm honest, I think

I was a bit of a, Nonfiction snob about

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it because I've always read nonfiction

and I thought well, you know I don't

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I don't make stuff up kind of thing

and then Luckily, I had an editor

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who didn't tell me I was full of crap

But instead said we ought to give it

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a try Because i've always loved to

write I wrote A lot in high school

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and college did a lot of journalism.

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And I've always thought in terms

of stories, it's, it's weird.

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As I look back through now having my own

five children and now grandchildren, I,

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my role in my family with four siblings

was I was the story getter and teller.

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I used to come to the dinner table.

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We always ate together.

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And I would have tried to remember

something from the day and then

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tell it in a way that entertained

my siblings and my parents.

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Marc Preston: Now, where did

you fall on the birth order?

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I was the second, second child.

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Now you said you were five, there

were five kids in your family.

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Four kids, four kids, four kids.

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James Comey: Yeah.

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And so maybe that's a.

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Um, and then I did the natural role

for a second child trying to find, I

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don't know, try a time in the spotlight,

but I did that and then I came to

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believe, still believe, that really

good prosecutors, really good trial

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lawyers in general are storytellers.

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They can take a complex set of facts and

hold the jury's interest and attention and

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synthesize it in a good way, speak about

it cleanly without distraction, which

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is what good writing requires, I think.

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And then, and so this

was part of who I was.

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just give it a try.

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That's when a valve opened because

I realized that I love to write.

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I type very quickly.

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I, I took a class in high

school as a freshman to try

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and suck up to a sports coach.

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And that didn't, that did not

work, but I learned how to type.

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Marc Preston: I remember my old IBM

Selectric I did in eighth grade.

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I was sick the day they learned how

to key the numbers on the top row.

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We remember those little things of.

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Tape you'd use to do correction on the

typewriter, you know, but, uh, when you've

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got a narrative in your mind, you got

something, you can kind of get it out of

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your mind and on paper pretty quickly.

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Yeah.

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It

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James Comey: flows out quickly.

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You just had, I just had a flashback,

not just the curraceable, the correction

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tape, but you could buy typing paper.

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That you could erase with, uh, the end

of a pencil eraser after you typed it.

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And the reason I remember this is I

typed a term paper in an all nighter

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one time in college, and I fell asleep

with it still in the typewriter.

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And I didn't realize that my

roommate had erased a number of four

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letter words and written them down.

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Uh, fuck throughout my, my typed it

throughout my, my paper and ran after

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me to stop me from turning it in.

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Thank God.

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Marc Preston: He just did

that as like a practical joke.

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Like you would catch that.

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Yeah.

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James Comey: Just, he

thought it was hilarious.

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Thought it was hilarious.

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And you

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Marc Preston: got up and you're just

going to be, make a beeline to class.

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Not even go, okay, I

know this is ready to go.

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Not even early reviewing it.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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So I'm

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James Comey: just going to hand it in.

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And he came running after me and

said, dude, I can't do it to you.

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And I said, what do you,

what do you mean, Dave?

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And he said, while you were sleeping,

I, I erased a bunch of words and

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type fuck throughout your term paper.

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I'm like, Oh my God,

what is wrong with you?

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But thank God he told me.

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We're still in touch.

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It, it, it wounded our friendship.

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Where'd

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Marc Preston: you go to school?

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The

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James Comey: College of

William and Mary in Virginia.

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Marc Preston: Kind of going back

a little bit more origin story.

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I'm curious to talk about

where you went to school.

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Where did you grow up?

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Were you, are you from

Virginia originally?

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James Comey: No, from the New York area.

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I lived in.

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Uh, Yonkers, New York, which borders the

Bronx, New York City on the north, and

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I was, my family lived in an Irish, um,

we weren't Irish immigrants, but a lot

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of Irish heritage people on a hill in a

particular area of Yonkers, and then my,

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My father took a new job, moved to the

wilderness across the Hudson River to

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northern New Jersey, but it was all in

the New York suburbs is where I grew up.

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And I went to college in Virginia, uh,

which it was my introduction of Virginia.

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I didn't know anything about it.

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What kind of work did your father do?

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He sold.

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Um, my dad is, is gone now, but I

can see him telling me he, we used

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to drive around New York and he

would say, there's my gas station.

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That's my gas station.

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And none of them were his.

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He worked for mobile, the gas

X, which is ExxonMobil now.

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And he would find locations for new

gas stations as driving was expanding

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the United States in the sixties.

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His job was to find them.

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And so he used to claim them for the

rest of his life as my gas station.

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Marc Preston: So he'd find strategic

locations that would be like off of,

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uh, off the interstate at an exit

and be like, it's a good place to be.

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Yeah.

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James Comey: Yeah.

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Pete folks will stop there.

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That'd be a great place for a gas station.

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He started out selling

cans of motor oil to.

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Uh, unaffiliated gas stations then

graduated to be in, he worked most of his

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career in what they call corporate real

estate, which makes it sound like he, he

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was a Titan that he owned real estate.

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He, he owned the house we lived

in, but he would, that was his

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job to find places like that.

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Marc Preston: Now, was your mother

working or was she a stay at

247

10:55 ,060 --> 00:10:57,150

home mom, uh, with the four kids?

248

10:57 ,410 --> 00:11:01,830

James Comey: She was home with us until

we went, the last one went to college.

249

11:01 ,830 --> 00:11:02,560

Then she got a.

250

11:03 ,275 --> 00:11:07,324

Graduate degree in computer education

because she wanted to know more about

251

11:07 ,645 --> 00:11:13,430

technology and then she taught At the

Girl Scouts of America for many years

252

11:13 ,430 --> 00:11:18,189

after we were gone, uh, taught kids

how to interact with computers and use

253

11:18 ,189 --> 00:11:22,380

computers and technology well, which is

a pretty cool thing for a woman in her,

254

11:22 ,920 --> 00:11:25,499

then it would have been her late sixties.

255

11:25 ,520 --> 00:11:27,229

And she did it for another 20 years.

256

11:27 ,299 --> 00:11:27,539

Was

257

11:27 ,539 --> 00:11:28,039

Marc Preston: this, was this

258

11:28 ,039 --> 00:11:31,349

James Comey: roughly like late

seventies ballpark or early eighties?

259

11:31 ,359 --> 00:11:31,589

Yeah.

260

11:31 ,589 --> 00:11:32,099

So let's see.

261

11:32 ,099 --> 00:11:35,885

So my youngest brother

went to college in 82.

262

11:35 ,895 --> 00:11:39,915

So it would have been, she would have

started doing it in the mid 1980s.

263

11:40 ,665 --> 00:11:41,485

Marc Preston: Yeah, that's right.

264

11:41 ,485 --> 00:11:46,125

When I think the computers we're using

were the old Apple 2E, big old beige

265

11:46 ,165 --> 00:11:49,125

monolithic computers, you know, you

know, that was kind of new, an idea

266

11:49 ,125 --> 00:11:50,475

to teach that in school, you know.

267

11:50 ,484 --> 00:11:50,764

Yeah,

268

11:51 ,185 --> 00:11:55,574

James Comey: and she had this belief,

which is, uh, she was right, that young

269

11:55 ,574 --> 00:12:02,015

people, especially girls, who were needed

to grow up understanding the technology

270

12:02 ,015 --> 00:12:03,249

that was going to drive you forward.

271

12:03 ,890 --> 00:12:05,069

America and life.

272

12:05 ,110 --> 00:12:09,440

And so it was a way of empowering

women by starting as young girls

273

12:09 ,440 --> 00:12:11,930

and making sure they understood

the technology in a good way.

274

12:12 ,120 --> 00:12:13,490

It was a very, very cool thing.

275

12:13 ,630 --> 00:12:14,550

My mother was a really cool.

276

12:14 ,610 --> 00:12:14,969

And a lot of

277

12:14 ,969 --> 00:12:18,190

Marc Preston: ladies were pioneers

in the, uh, in the computer.

278

12:18 ,200 --> 00:12:21,210

If I remember the computer history,

you know, serves, uh, as far as

279

12:21 ,220 --> 00:12:24,600

the early programmers, you know,

for going way, way, way back.

280

12:24 ,610 --> 00:12:28,160

In fact, I grew up in a suburb

called Richardson, uh, North

281

12:28 ,160 --> 00:12:30,930

Dallas, and that's actually the

headquarters of Texas instruments.

282

12:31 ,230 --> 00:12:33,159

So all of my friends in school.

283

12:33 ,675 --> 00:12:35,295

A lot of them, their parents worked at TI.

284

12:35 ,295 --> 00:12:37,175

So I got a chance to see computers.

285

12:37 ,345 --> 00:12:40,275

Computers was kind of an early,

you know, I had, I was fortunate to

286

12:40 ,285 --> 00:12:41,595

have an early introduction to it.

287

12:41 ,595 --> 00:12:44,185

Now I'd like to get away from the

computers as much as possible.

288

12:44 ,895 --> 00:12:48,994

Um, but so did your siblings,

did they kind of follow your path

289

12:48 ,994 --> 00:12:50,434

or they, did they head into law?

290

12:50 ,475 --> 00:12:51,925

Did they kind of go their own way?

291

12:51 ,954 --> 00:12:53,214

James Comey: No, they're very diverse.

292

12:53 ,245 --> 00:12:54,345

My father used to joke.

293

12:54 ,345 --> 00:12:55,495

He, his children had.

294

12:56 ,040 --> 00:13:00,329

Protected him against a changing economy

because my sister went into finance

295

13:00 ,339 --> 00:13:05,020

She was the oldest and then my next

brother below me became an architect

296

13:05 ,310 --> 00:13:09,680

and then my youngest brother became a

brain surgeon He's still a neurosurgeon.

297

13:10 ,209 --> 00:13:13,999

So my father used to say I got

a banker a lawyer an architect

298

13:14 ,060 --> 00:13:16,355

and a doctor I'm covered.

299

13:16 ,445 --> 00:13:17,775

Marc Preston: He did well, most certainly.

300

13:17 ,805 --> 00:13:21,575

And, uh, and he had a few gas stations,

you know, and under his belt is

301

13:21 ,575 --> 00:13:22,245

James Comey: gas stations.

302

13:23 From Law School to Federal Prosecutor

13:23 ,105 --> 00:13:27,375

Marc Preston: Now, when you were starting

off, was law always on the radar for

303

13:27 ,375 --> 00:13:30,864

you or was it something for lack of a

better way of putting it, did you kind

304

13:30 ,865 --> 00:13:32,545

of happen into that as you were studying?

305

13:32 ,694 --> 00:13:36,075

James Comey: I was going to be a doctor

and my, my family, even though we were

306

13:36 ,075 --> 00:13:40,005

middle class, my, my parents preached.

307

13:40 ,530 --> 00:13:46,070

and sort of planted in us this idea that

you had to find a way to contribute and to

308

13:46 ,070 --> 00:13:48,270

try to help people less fortunate than we.

309

13:48 ,280 --> 00:13:54,310

My father used to joke his dream was to

be lower upper middle class and he said,

310

13:54 ,310 --> 00:13:55,890

someday I'm going to get to lower upper.

311

13:56 ,380 --> 00:13:59,429

And, but he said, you know, we laugh,

but there's a lot of people down

312

13:59 ,429 --> 00:14:02,920

the ladder from us and you have to

find a way to contribute to help.

313

14:03 ,440 --> 00:14:05,770

And so I thought the way I can

do that is through medicine.

314

14:05 ,790 --> 00:14:08,069

So I was a pre med major at William Mary.

315

14:08 ,069 --> 00:14:09,240

I was a chemistry major.

316

14:09 ,660 --> 00:14:10,510

I took advanced.

317

14:10 ,890 --> 00:14:13,910

Biochemistry, chemistry,

maths of all kinds, physics.

318

14:14 ,329 --> 00:14:18,690

And had a crisis when I was

the end of my junior year.

319

14:18 ,690 --> 00:14:21,510

I thought, wait a minute, why am,

why do I, why am I doing this?

320

14:21 ,820 --> 00:14:26,470

This is not my strength and started

casting about for other ways to be useful.

321

14:26 ,470 --> 00:14:31,300

And, uh, short story, I, I decided,

well, what do I do pretty well?

322

14:31 ,310 --> 00:14:32,060

I write pretty well.

323

14:32 ,060 --> 00:14:33,150

I speak pretty well.

324

14:33 ,450 --> 00:14:34,710

I like to interact with people.

325

14:34 ,710 --> 00:14:38,160

Maybe the better thing to do

is something in the law field.

326

14:38 ,420 --> 00:14:39,490

Didn't know what I wanted to do.

327

14:39 ,880 --> 00:14:40,970

Went to law school.

328

14:41 ,415 --> 00:14:44,444

After law school, I represented

poor people during the, in

329

14:44 ,444 --> 00:14:45,615

a clinic during law school.

330

14:45 ,615 --> 00:14:46,574

I love that.

331

14:47 ,074 --> 00:14:48,795

Worked for a judge after I graduated.

332

14:48 ,795 --> 00:14:52,594

Sat in the courtroom one day and watched a

mafia case, and I was struck by lightning.

333

14:53 ,175 --> 00:14:56,504

I went home and called my girlfriend,

now my wife, who was living in Virginia,

334

14:56 ,655 --> 00:14:58,725

and I said, I know what I want to do.

335

14:59 ,245 --> 00:14:59,955

And she said, what?

336

14:59 ,995 --> 00:15:02,045

I said, I want to be a federal prosecutor.

337

15:02 ,495 --> 00:15:04,005

I want to put the mob away.

338

15:04 ,075 --> 00:15:05,145

I've always hated bullies.

339

15:05 ,145 --> 00:15:07,764

I was bullied as a kid and I

thought, if I can put those bullies

340

15:07 ,764 --> 00:15:09,785

away, what a way to make a life.

341

15:09 ,825 --> 00:15:12,544

Marc Preston: Didn't you end up

working in the Southern District of

342

15:12 ,544 --> 00:15:14,685

New York as an assistant, uh, uh, U.

343

15:14 ,685 --> 00:15:14,775

S.

344

15:14 ,775 --> 00:15:15,885

district attorney, correct?

345

15:16 ,015 --> 00:15:16,225

James Comey: Yeah.

346

15:16 ,225 --> 00:15:17,734

And those were the

people, those assistant U.

347

15:17 ,735 --> 00:15:17,835

S.

348

15:17 ,854 --> 00:15:21,545

attorneys, that's, those young people

were the ones I was watching in that

349

15:21 ,545 --> 00:15:25,215

courtroom that day, trying to lock

up fat Tony Salerno, the boss of

350

15:25 ,215 --> 00:15:26,885

the Genovese family, crime family.

351

15:27 ,024 --> 00:15:27,054

Okay.

352

15:27 ,435 --> 00:15:27,915

And.

353

15:28 ,425 --> 00:15:31,584

And I told my wife, I not only want to

do this, I want to do it in New York.

354

15:31 ,584 --> 00:15:33,675

And that was a much harder

conversation because she didn't

355

15:33 ,675 --> 00:15:34,764

love the idea of New York.

356

15:34 ,904 --> 00:15:36,204

Well, my girlfriend then, where

357

15:36 ,204 --> 00:15:36,804

Marc Preston: is she from

358

15:36 ,805 --> 00:15:37,204

James Comey: originally?

359

15:37 ,324 --> 00:15:41,774

She's from Iowa and then lived in

Virginia when her father worked

360

15:41 ,774 --> 00:15:46,250

for different stints in the

government, in the, Nixon years.

361

15:46 ,260 --> 00:15:48,290

So early 1970s.

362

15:48 ,329 --> 00:15:51,770

Marc Preston: That's a pretty big to

say, Hey, this is something I would

363

15:51 ,770 --> 00:15:53,280

really like to do in this place.

364

15:53 ,310 --> 00:15:56,829

I always hear about the Southern district

of New York as a very active, you

365

15:56 ,829 --> 00:15:58,910

know, I imagine there's a competition.

366

15:58 ,910 --> 00:16:01,719

A lot of people want to go there,

you know, and do their work there.

367

16:01 ,719 --> 00:16:04,579

So did William and Mary have

a law school or did you go

368

16:04 ,579 --> 00:16:05,589

somewhere else for law school?

369

16:05 ,650 --> 00:16:09,560

James Comey: I went to the university

of Chicago for law school, which was A

370

16:09 ,560 --> 00:16:13,819

great law school and really, I mean, I

was waitlisted there and thank God they

371

16:13 ,819 --> 00:16:20,729

took me in off the waitlist and so I went

from there, uh, because of its reputation,

372

16:20 ,730 --> 00:16:24,150

I was able to get a job working for

a judge in Manhattan, federal judge.

373

16:24 ,600 --> 00:16:28,730

And then, A really important stroke

for me, stroke of luck, was the

374

16:28 ,730 --> 00:16:31,840

judge turned out to be someone who

had worked as a federal prosecutor.

375

16:32 ,319 --> 00:16:34,499

And so when he recommended

me, because you're right, it's

376

16:34 ,499 --> 00:16:35,810

a hard place to get a job.

377

16:35 ,829 --> 00:16:37,779

Years later I became

the boss there, the U.

378

16:37 ,779 --> 00:16:37,909

S.

379

16:37 ,909 --> 00:16:40,410

Attorney, and I know how

hard it is to get in.

380

16:40 ,780 --> 00:16:45,055

That his word, that, uh, That they

should take a chance on me was a

381

16:45 ,194 --> 00:16:46,074

Marc Preston: big help.

382

16:46 ,235 --> 00:16:49,814

My grandfather, rest his soul, had

a pet interest in law and so did I.

383

16:49 ,814 --> 00:16:52,995

And, but I kind of ascribed to what

Tom Hanks once said, he said, you

384

16:52 ,995 --> 00:16:55,685

know, something about being an attorney

is like doing homework for a living.

385

16:55 ,694 --> 00:16:56,844

And he didn't want to do that, you know?

386

16:56 ,844 --> 00:17:01,675

So I know just enough to know

what I don't know, you know?

387

17:01 ,745 --> 00:17:04,605

So, so along the path and you're

going to law school and your wife,

388

17:04 ,645 --> 00:17:08,045

was it, was there an evolving

master plan or was it just.

389

17:08 ,175 --> 00:17:10,454

Get to be in the Southern district.

390

17:10 ,454 --> 00:17:12,454

And that's where you're going

to ride out your career.

391

17:12 ,454 --> 00:17:16,185

Or did you have, did you already have

aspirations for doing something else?

392

17:16 ,275 --> 00:17:16,815

James Comey: Oh, gosh.

393

17:16 ,815 --> 00:17:23,755

No, the master plan was that we would,

I told her that I would stay three years

394

17:23 ,925 --> 00:17:25,165

in the Southern district of New York.

395

17:25 ,174 --> 00:17:25,204

And.

396

17:25 ,879 --> 00:17:31,960

After six years, so doubled the

lie, I kept my promise to her and

397

17:31 ,960 --> 00:17:35,659

moved to Richmond, Virginia, where

I really, I didn't know anybody.

398

17:36 ,100 --> 00:17:38,269

And I wanted to be a

federal prosecutor there.

399

17:38 ,270 --> 00:17:42,079

And I couldn't get into the government

job because there was a hiring freeze.

400

17:42 ,429 --> 00:17:46,450

So I went to a big law firm, which

was like doing homework for a living.

401

17:46 ,990 --> 00:17:51,475

And I left there after three years

when the freeze lifted and I became

402

17:51 ,475 --> 00:17:54,625

the supervisor at the federal

prosecutor's office in Richmond.

403

17:55 ,045 --> 00:17:57,975

And that's what I was going to

do for the rest of my career.

404

17:58 ,114 --> 00:18:02,004

Marc Preston: So you saw a kind of like

a path, like a, a narrative of how things

405

18:02 ,005 --> 00:18:03,125

were going to go throughout your career.

406

18:03 ,125 --> 00:18:04,915

You know, you were in, how

you would come up the ranks.

407

18:05 ,095 --> 00:18:06,874

How did you veer off that path?

408

18:06 ,995 --> 00:18:08,865

Did somebody come to you

and go, Hey, you should.

409

18:09 ,170 --> 00:18:13,460

You know, uh, whether it be FBI

or whether it be private sector,

410

18:13 ,850 --> 00:18:15,350

how did those things come along?

411

18:15 ,410 --> 00:18:19,600

James Comey: It was one of my, my

career is a series of unplanned, uh,

412

18:19 ,610 --> 00:18:23,210

lightning strikes because I wasn't

planning to move up the ranks.

413

18:23 ,210 --> 00:18:26,170

I was going to stay as a federal

prosecutor in Richmond, which had

414

18:26 ,170 --> 00:18:27,730

a real problem with violent crime.

415

18:27 ,730 --> 00:18:30,770

It was really rewarding to try

and rescue neighborhoods there

416

18:30 ,770 --> 00:18:32,160

that were plagued by violence.

417

18:32 ,650 --> 00:18:33,110

And.

418

18:33 ,495 --> 00:18:38,035

We had a, we had a five bedroom

house that I paid 252, 000 for,

419

18:38 ,445 --> 00:18:39,785

and we had good public schools.

420

18:39 ,785 --> 00:18:41,385

We had five children by this point.

421

18:41 ,385 --> 00:18:42,775

And so that's where I was going to stay.

422

18:43 ,345 --> 00:18:45,125

I worked on a terrorism case.

423

18:45 ,890 --> 00:18:52,930

Where I was going to ask the grand jury

to accuse Iran of funding an attack

424

18:52 ,930 --> 00:18:56,730

on an American air force barracks

in Saudi Arabia, which they did.

425

18:57 ,260 --> 00:18:59,600

And the new administration of George W.

426

18:59 ,600 --> 00:19:02,930

Bush, that was a big deal that this

prosecutor in Richmond wanted to do that.

427

19:03 ,300 --> 00:19:06,190

And so I had to go to Washington

to explain myself and I ended up.

428

19:06 ,645 --> 00:19:09,325

All the way at the White House,

explaining it to the Secretary of

429

19:09 ,335 --> 00:19:12,705

State, the Secretary of Defense,

and the National Security Advisor.

430

19:13 ,175 --> 00:19:15,895

And then I went home to Richmond,

and they gave me permission, and I

431

19:15 ,925 --> 00:19:18,825

brought that case, and I was working

that case, and then 9 11 happened.

432

19:18 ,944 --> 00:19:20,965

Marc Preston: Now, who exactly

was the defendant in that case?

433

19:20 ,965 --> 00:19:24,265

You said it was a known

terrorist, or somebody that

434

19:24 ,265 --> 00:19:25,544

was assumed to be a terrorist?

435

19:25 ,575 --> 00:19:29,325

James Comey: The defendants were a dozen

or so members of Hezbollah, the Party

436

19:29 ,325 --> 00:19:33,855

of God, which is a, Shiite terrorism

organizations in the news now because it's

437

19:33 ,855 --> 00:19:39,255

attacking Israel from the north a lot from

its safe harbor in Lebanon But it is a

438

19:39 ,405 --> 00:19:45,004

a tool of Iran and in the 1990s Iran was

supporting Hezbollah to try and attack

439

19:45 ,014 --> 00:19:47,365

Americans in Saudi inside Saudi Arabia.

440

19:47 ,835 --> 00:19:52,390

And so the individual defendants were

the members of the Hezbollah team and

441

19:52 ,410 --> 00:19:54,250

logistics team that ran the attack.

442

19:54 ,850 --> 00:19:58,480

And so after 9 11, there was a political

dispute in Washington, in New York that

443

19:58 ,480 --> 00:20:01,759

I didn't know anything about and wasn't

following, where the Republicans and

444

20:01 ,770 --> 00:20:05,989

the Democrats, imagine that, couldn't

agree on who should be the chief federal

445

20:05 ,990 --> 00:20:07,900

prosecutor after 9 11 in Manhattan.

446

20:08 ,490 --> 00:20:13,950

And someone at a meeting said, Hey, what

about that guy from, uh, from Virginia?

447

20:14 ,285 --> 00:20:15,425

He used to be in New York.

448

20:15 ,885 --> 00:20:18,405

And so I became the relationship

everybody settled for.

449

20:18 ,655 --> 00:20:21,295

The Republicans and the Democrats

all said, yeah, he'd be okay.

450

20:21 ,765 --> 00:20:26,235

And so I went back to New York with my

amazing spouse right after 9 11, the

451

20:26 ,235 --> 00:20:28,105

trade center site was still smoking.

452

20:28 ,175 --> 00:20:31,495

And I became the chief federal

prosecutor back there without ever

453

20:31 ,495 --> 00:20:35,065

having applied, without ever having

thought about going back to New York.

454

20:35 ,555 --> 00:20:36,565

And so we went back.

455

20:36 ,655 --> 00:20:38,335

Marc Preston: You said you had

to speak with the secretary, was

456

20:38 ,335 --> 00:20:39,605

it Condoleezza Rice, I think?

457

20:39 ,605 --> 00:20:39,644

Yeah.

458

20:39 ,645 --> 00:20:39,875

James Comey: Yeah.

459

20:39 ,875 --> 00:20:43,535

Condi Rice was the national

security advisor, Donald Rumsfeld.

460

20:44 ,045 --> 00:20:50,014

And Colin Powell were the main people to,

I wasn't supposed to go to this meeting.

461

20:50 ,835 --> 00:20:53,865

The story is actually even funnier

that I'm letting on, but I was

462

20:53 ,865 --> 00:20:57,355

so relaxed because they told

me, you have no speaking role.

463

20:57 ,355 --> 00:20:58,434

You wouldn't even be in the meeting.

464

20:58 ,845 --> 00:21:01,144

We're going to have you drive

over with the attorney general.

465

21:01 ,154 --> 00:21:04,295

He'll go into the white house

situation room and explain the case.

466

21:04 ,595 --> 00:21:05,885

You'll sit out in the lobby.

467

21:06 ,294 --> 00:21:07,705

And then you could ride back with him.

468

21:07 ,764 --> 00:21:09,104

And I thought, what a great field trip.

469

21:09 ,314 --> 00:21:13,845

So I'm sitting in the lobby outside

the sit room when the door bangs open

470

21:14 ,285 --> 00:21:18,105

and Colin Powell is standing there

and he says, who is the prosecutor?

471

21:18 ,504 --> 00:21:21,185

And so I raised my hand

and he says, get in here.

472

21:21 ,805 --> 00:21:24,454

And apparently the attorney general

was, I don't know what was going on.

473

21:24 ,495 --> 00:21:25,224

It wasn't good.

474

21:25 ,485 --> 00:21:28,254

So they brought me in, sat me at

this little table and, and through

475

21:28 ,254 --> 00:21:31,205

questions of me, and I'm sure you've

had these kinds of experiences.

476

21:31 ,225 --> 00:21:32,685

I didn't have time to get nervous.

477

21:33 ,130 --> 00:21:34,460

Because I wasn't going to get in the game.

478

21:34 ,460 --> 00:21:35,700

I still had my warm ups on.

479

21:35 ,790 --> 00:21:36,700

This is going to be fine.

480

21:36 ,970 --> 00:21:39,240

And all of a sudden I'm standing

in the middle of the court.

481

21:39 ,350 --> 00:21:42,509

And so, uh, it was amazing.

482

21:42 ,520 --> 00:21:44,930

And, and I swept through

my suit and then I left.

483

21:45 ,460 --> 00:21:49,789

And that's, I think that, I've been

told since then, that's how, they

484

21:49 ,789 --> 00:21:52,850

probably remember my height most of

all, honestly, because I had to duck.

485

21:53 ,010 --> 00:21:57,280

In the white house situation room to

walk under doorways, but someone said,

486

21:57 ,280 --> 00:21:58,970

what about that tall guy from Virginia?

487

21:59 ,020 --> 00:22:00,190

Could we use him in New York?

488

22:00 ,330 --> 00:22:01,650

Marc Preston: How did the

case come to you again?

489

22:01 ,650 --> 00:22:05,650

And how did you for being in Richmond?

490

22:05 ,690 --> 00:22:08,439

That's kind of a, uh, so how'd

that come on your radar for

491

22:08 ,439 --> 00:22:09,350

like a better way of putting it?

492

22:09 ,629 --> 00:22:13,399

James Comey: It's a great question

because the then FBI director, a guy

493

22:13 ,399 --> 00:22:17,750

named Louie Free was frustrated with

the pace of the investigation in the

494

22:17 ,750 --> 00:22:21,010

office that had originally been assigned

the case, which was Washington DC.

495

22:21 ,820 --> 00:22:22,879

And he went.

496

22:23 ,320 --> 00:22:27,200

He knew me because he had actually

been, this is all circle, he had been

497

22:27 ,200 --> 00:22:32,219

the head of the hiring committee when

I applied as a young lawyer to join

498

22:32 ,219 --> 00:22:33,340

the Southern District of New York.

499

22:33 ,720 --> 00:22:38,139

And so he remembered me from there, called

me out of the blue one day and said, Hey,

500

22:38 ,139 --> 00:22:42,760

if I could get a terrorism case moved

to you in Richmond, um, would you do it?

501

22:43 ,330 --> 00:22:44,379

And I said, of course I'll do it.

502

22:44 ,900 --> 00:22:49,580

And so then he set to work on the

head of the Justice Department, who

503

22:49 ,580 --> 00:22:53,940

was a guy named Robert Mueller, who

was acting as the Attorney General.

504

22:54 ,060 --> 00:22:57,660

And he asked Mueller to order

the case moved to me in Virginia.

505

22:58 ,169 --> 00:22:59,290

And Mueller did it.

506

22:59 ,299 --> 00:23:01,580

And that's how I ended up

with the case in Virginia.

507

23:01 ,680 --> 00:23:04,510

Marc Preston: Did you feel any, I don't

want to say intimidation, but did you

508

23:04 ,510 --> 00:23:09,140

feel that Your job was going to be any

harder, or is it just you had more of an

509

23:09 ,140 --> 00:23:10,990

audience than you're used to, let's say?

510

23:13 ,410 --> 00:23:17,849

James Comey: Probably a little of both,

actually, at different moments, because I

511

23:17 ,850 --> 00:23:23,280

felt pressure because the leaders of the

Justice Department had sort of put me in

512

23:23 ,280 --> 00:23:26,889

this game, and I felt pressure to deliver.

513

23:27 ,175 --> 00:23:29,445

And it was a hard case, and I

won't go into all the details,

514

23:29 ,445 --> 00:23:31,785

but it was hard to put together.

515

23:31 ,855 --> 00:23:34,255

And I think that explained

why it had taken so long in D.

516

23:34 ,255 --> 00:23:34,605

C.

517

23:35 ,005 --> 00:23:38,625

I felt a special sense of pressure

because the families of the 19

518

23:38 ,625 --> 00:23:43,575

American service members who were

killed that day were very frustrated

519

23:43 ,635 --> 00:23:45,225

that a case hadn't been brought.

520

23:45 ,525 --> 00:23:47,875

And it had been almost

five years at that point.

521

23:48 ,385 --> 00:23:52,995

And so I felt that pressure, but

sitting in Richmond, you can't

522

23:52 ,995 --> 00:23:54,404

see Washington from Richmond.

523

23:54 ,405 --> 00:23:55,685

That's one of the things I loved about it.

524

23:56 ,185 --> 00:23:59,214

And so I, it would feel like I

was just doing the regular job.

525

23:59 ,214 --> 00:24:01,424

And so that's what I mean

by saying different days.

526

24:01 ,424 --> 00:24:02,274

I would feel differently.

527

24:02 ,274 --> 00:24:02,654

I think

528

24:02 ,744 --> 00:24:05,415

Marc Preston: I remember in the,

uh, the Comey rule, which I don't

529

24:05 ,415 --> 00:24:08,645

know how many people have the good

fortune to say that, uh, that, uh,

530

24:08 ,645 --> 00:24:10,284

Jeff Daniels has played them before.

531

24:10 ,284 --> 00:24:10,995

That's kind of cool.

532

24:11 ,365 --> 00:24:16,620

But there was one scene that you were

talking about the impetus What you're

533

24:16 ,620 --> 00:24:22,659

wanting to do coming from a childhood

experience, how accurate was that?

534

24:22 ,669 --> 00:24:26,009

Because of course it's movies, creative

license, but how accurate was that in

535

24:26 ,009 --> 00:24:31,159

terms of, you know, your motivations,

uh, and the jobs you took and the things

536

24:31 ,189 --> 00:24:32,779

that you were wanting to accomplish?

537

24:33 ,279 --> 00:24:38,704

James Comey: I think the writers of

that movie and Jeff Daniels, who's Of

538

24:40 ,485 --> 00:24:44,975

course there was license taken with

actual conversations, and, but I think

539

24:44 ,975 --> 00:24:47,565

they captured that in an accurate way.

540

24:47 ,605 --> 00:24:54,524

They captured the spirit of my family,

in a, in an eerily accurate way, and

541

24:54 ,535 --> 00:24:59,004

the nature of my interactions and the

quality of the people that I worked with.

542

24:59 ,315 --> 00:25:01,995

The one thing they missed was

the, I think I'm pretty funny.

543

25:02 ,434 --> 00:25:06,495

And, uh, Jeff Daniels, his character,

uh, there's no humor in that.

544

25:06 ,975 --> 00:25:09,305

And so that was a, that was a major miss.

545

25:16 ,554 --> 00:25:18,374

Marc Preston: One of the scenes

when they open up your closet and

546

25:18 ,384 --> 00:25:21,464

there's not a lot of difference

in the shade of the sport coat.

547

25:21 ,464 --> 00:25:23,965

So I think it was kind of, This

is who we're dealing with now.

548

25:23 ,995 --> 00:25:24,965

Yes, exactly.

549

25:25 ,245 --> 00:25:28,195

You talk about your background

and you're talking about where

550

25:28 ,195 --> 00:25:29,705

you came from, your motivations.

551

25:30 ,075 --> 00:25:32,264

Uh, what, is there anything

in particular that was really

552

25:32 ,264 --> 00:25:33,595

driving you the whole time?

553

25:33 ,595 --> 00:25:35,665

Was there things you're wanting

to accomplish that you're

554

25:35 ,885 --> 00:25:39,534

starting to see pathways, uh,

the FBI or, or anything else?

555

25:40 ,395 --> 00:25:42,954

How much of that was

informed by your upbringing?

556

25:43 ,615 --> 00:25:46,725

And again, I'm kind of alluding to what

I, you know, what Jeff Daniels talking

557

25:46 ,735 --> 00:25:48,965

about the, the, the, what was it?

558

25:49 ,005 --> 00:25:52,694

There was a break in at your home,

uh, something to that effect.

559

25:52 A Life-Changing Incident

25:52 ,694 --> 00:25:52,844

I

560

25:52 ,864 --> 00:25:53,655

James Comey: don't know.

561

25:53 ,734 --> 00:25:56,235

So I was a senior in high school.

562

25:57 ,204 --> 00:26:00,985

Actually it was the last time

I wrote fiction before this.

563

26:00 ,985 --> 00:26:04,694

I was working on a piece for a literary

magazine, believe it or not, when a

564

26:04 ,824 --> 00:26:08,635

gunman kicked in the front door of my

parents house in Northern New Jersey.

565

26:08 ,635 --> 00:26:12,455

And then in a terrifying night

held me and my brother captive.

566

26:12 ,455 --> 00:26:14,034

And we escaped and he caught us.

567

26:14 ,405 --> 00:26:20,815

We escaped again, and, and so I, I,

at least again, we're all unreliable

568

26:20 ,815 --> 00:26:25,135

narrators about our own lives,

especially, but I don't believe that,

569

26:25 ,655 --> 00:26:29,265

at least it didn't explicitly drive

me into law enforcement, but the

570

26:29 ,265 --> 00:26:35,875

impact it had on me was I became a

life is short person, because that

571

26:35 ,875 --> 00:26:37,434

night I knew I was going to die.

572

26:37 ,444 --> 00:26:38,384

It's even beyond.

573

26:38 ,404 --> 00:26:39,264

I thought I was going to die.

574

26:39 ,264 --> 00:26:39,844

I really didn't.

575

26:40 ,095 --> 00:26:44,475

Was convinced this at one point the

guy was about to kill me and it made

576

26:44 ,475 --> 00:26:46,665

me, my kids are on this podcast.

577

26:46 ,695 --> 00:26:49,805

They would laugh and groan

and made me a sunsets person.

578

26:50 ,294 --> 00:26:53,354

I will stop the car and

show them the sunset.

579

26:53 ,874 --> 00:26:56,604

And so they now send me,

text me pictures of sunsets.

580

26:56 ,604 --> 00:27:05,344

But that sense that life is really short

has been a North star for me because it

581

27:05 ,344 --> 00:27:06,804

made me figure out what matters to me.

582

27:06 ,804 --> 00:27:10,614

I really don't care about

having been in prominent jobs.

583

27:10 ,655 --> 00:27:13,584

I know who I want to have been when I die.

584

27:13 ,625 --> 00:27:16,864

And it's not, I mean, who knows

what it'll be in my old bed.

585

27:16 ,865 --> 00:27:20,284

I've asked a good guest, but I

want to have been a great husband,

586

27:20 ,294 --> 00:27:22,014

father, grandfather, father in law.

587

27:22 ,614 --> 00:27:27,895

And community member and

the rest is all great.

588

27:27 ,975 --> 00:27:31,485

But, but that organizing principle,

I think it was probably my parents

589

27:31 ,804 --> 00:27:33,475

made it part of me growing up.

590

27:33 ,995 --> 00:27:34,295

But yeah,

591

27:34 ,295 --> 00:27:36,585

Marc Preston: cause you're, you're saying

how your father, you know, be of service.

592

27:36 ,585 --> 00:27:40,934

And that seemed like it was sort

of like, you know, the ingredients

593

27:40 ,934 --> 00:27:43,764

were there that just kind of baked

it in, you know, that moment.

594

27:43 ,764 --> 00:27:43,955

Maybe.

595

27:43 ,975 --> 00:27:44,264

James Comey: Yeah.

596

27:44 ,675 --> 00:27:47,375

And so when we're like, I never

applied to be FBI director, I

597

27:47 ,375 --> 00:27:48,814

didn't expect to be FBI director.

598

27:48 ,814 --> 00:27:49,425

I said no.

599

27:49 ,425 --> 00:27:52,910

When they called me in Connecticut,

And asked me to come down and

600

27:52 ,910 --> 00:27:54,190

be interviewed for the job.

601

27:54 ,600 --> 00:27:56,930

And then my wife talked

to me into saying yes.

602

27:57 ,380 --> 00:27:58,060

And so

603

28:00 ,090 --> 00:28:01,570

part of it is, and I lost that job.

604

28:01 ,570 --> 00:28:06,499

I got fired in 2017, but the jobs

were never part of my identity.

605

28:07 ,050 --> 00:28:08,389

And so I really enjoyed them.

606

28:08 ,389 --> 00:28:10,170

And I felt like I, I did a good job.

607

28:10 ,170 --> 00:28:12,580

I tried to do a good job in

very difficult circumstances.

608

28:13 ,800 --> 00:28:15,860

Losing it is.

609

28:16 ,695 --> 00:28:18,675

People often ask me, wow,

that must've been traumatic.

610

28:19 ,585 --> 00:28:24,595

Not really, not for me personally,

because what matters to me is what's

611

28:24 ,595 --> 00:28:27,515

running around outside while you

and I are talking, my grandchildren

612

28:27 ,515 --> 00:28:29,174

playing on a swing set with my wife.

613

28:29 ,645 --> 00:28:35,655

And so I think that was part of me, but

that became part of my consciousness

614

28:35 ,655 --> 00:28:40,240

that night, lying on the bed, With a

gunman pointing a gun at the back of my

615

28:40 ,240 --> 00:28:48,700

head in silence for many, many seconds,

because he hadn't expected me to be there.

616

28:49 ,140 --> 00:28:52,880

He was a serial rapist and robber

who was coming for my sister.

617

28:53 ,549 --> 00:28:55,979

And so thank God she wasn't home.

618

28:56 ,050 --> 00:28:58,399

Marc Preston: Did he know if he

had been, uh, casing the house?

619

28:58 ,449 --> 00:28:59,809

Did he know what was expected?

620

28:59 ,909 --> 00:29:00,540

What he was going.

621

29:00 ,540 --> 00:29:00,870

Okay.

622

29:00 ,889 --> 00:29:01,310

I gotcha.

623

29:01 ,379 --> 00:29:04,500

James Comey: Yeah, he had been,

they found his footprints outside a

624

29:04 ,500 --> 00:29:08,890

window to our basement and he likely

mistook my brother lying in the dark

625

29:08 ,890 --> 00:29:10,490

watching television for my sister.

626

29:11 ,220 --> 00:29:13,340

And so that was his MO.

627

29:13 ,340 --> 00:29:15,530

He preyed on babysitters.

628

29:16 ,040 --> 00:29:21,159

And so he likely saw my parents

go out, looked in, watched, and

629

29:21 ,159 --> 00:29:22,889

then kicked in the front door.

630

29:23 ,610 --> 00:29:24,700

And it's even more terrifying.

631

29:24 ,700 --> 00:29:29,139

I didn't, I didn't know this, that as this

was going on, but he had cut the phone

632

29:29 ,139 --> 00:29:31,750

lines to the homes on either side of ours.

633

29:32 ,420 --> 00:29:37,450

So that if we escaped, we ended up

escaping at one point or running back into

634

29:37 ,450 --> 00:29:43,260

our own house, which was the one thing he

couldn't have happened because that was

635

29:43 ,260 --> 00:29:45,029

the place where there was a phone line.

636

29:45 ,540 --> 00:29:49,840

And we didn't know that, but we locked the

door and got butcher knives and called.

637

29:50 ,050 --> 00:29:52,960

They didn't have 9 1 1 then

I called press zero and I got

638

29:52 ,960 --> 00:29:54,300

connected to the police department.

639

29:54 ,810 --> 00:30:00,510

And, and so, um, But that,

so that night has, believe it

640

30:00 ,510 --> 00:30:01,840

or not, has, what am I now?

641

30:01 ,860 --> 00:30:08,020

63 has stayed with me in a really

clear way for my entire life.

642

30:08 ,020 --> 00:30:08,839

Marc Preston: Isn't that funny though?

643

30:08 ,839 --> 00:30:12,570

When you, when you look back at life,

how I can look back at my childhood,

644

30:12 ,669 --> 00:30:14,440

some things are just like palpable.

645

30:14 ,440 --> 00:30:15,240

You almost touch it.

646

30:15 ,270 --> 00:30:17,429

And then other things like, what

did I have for lunch yesterday?

647

30:17 ,429 --> 00:30:18,150

I got no clue.

648

30:18 ,480 --> 00:30:18,650

Yeah.

649

30:18 ,980 --> 00:30:22,160

So there's some things that

just to just get kind of, uh,

650

30:22 ,170 --> 00:30:23,380

uh, trapped in Amber, you know?

651

30:23 ,400 --> 00:30:23,600

Yep.

652

30:24 ,200 --> 00:30:25,400

James Comey: I used to tell juries.

653

30:25 ,555 --> 00:30:31,265

When, when someone would argue about a

witness who didn't remember something,

654

30:31 ,745 --> 00:30:36,645

I would tell juries, you all know this,

but time has nothing to do with memory.

655

30:37 ,395 --> 00:30:39,825

It's the significance of an event, right?

656

30:39 ,825 --> 00:30:43,734

That, that if I asked you the

weather on the day of your

657

30:43 ,735 --> 00:30:46,605

wedding, you would tell me.

658

30:47 ,004 --> 00:30:51,015

If I asked you the weather day before

yesterday, you would stop and say,

659

30:51 ,015 --> 00:30:52,505

wait a minute, was it, did it rain?

660

30:53 ,075 --> 00:30:53,505

And.

661

30:53 ,905 --> 00:30:56,665

And so it's it's not about time.

662

30:56 ,665 --> 00:30:58,005

It's about what it means to you

663

30:58 Family-Centric Decisions

30:58 ,095 --> 00:31:01,135

Marc Preston: you know one of the things

I really enjoyed about the movie that

664

31:01 ,405 --> 00:31:06,464

I thought it was a good part of the

narrative and I just feel like that

665

31:06 ,465 --> 00:31:11,684

there was a Center the um fulcrum of

everything happening in life was happening

666

31:11 ,685 --> 00:31:15,705

at home with your wife, you know It was

really family centric So your wife it

667

31:15 ,705 --> 00:31:19,845

seems like and what's her name by the

way patrice patrice I like so i'm just

668

31:19 ,865 --> 00:31:23,845

going off the creative license of the

movie but You It seems like no decisions

669

31:23 ,845 --> 00:31:25,845

were being made just unilaterally.

670

31:25 ,845 --> 00:31:28,325

It seems like it was really kind

of what was best for the family.

671

31:28 ,385 --> 00:31:33,005

And when everything was going on with,

uh, the, uh, you know, past administration

672

31:33 ,005 --> 00:31:36,875

and your daughters, how it was, it was

affecting them and them going to school.

673

31:36 ,975 --> 00:31:39,895

Probably now more than ever,

people feel licensed to be less

674

31:39 ,914 --> 00:31:44,035

than, you know, diplomatic, uh,

with the families of people who

675

31:44 ,035 --> 00:31:45,965

were doing a very difficult job.

676

31:47 ,250 --> 00:31:50,270

Is that an accurate assessment

kind of how you started making

677

31:50 ,270 --> 00:31:53,970

decisions or where your decisions

came from, you know, professionally?

678

31:54 ,000 --> 00:31:54,410

James Comey: Yes.

679

31:54 ,870 --> 00:31:57,440

My family is the center of my life.

680

31:58 ,160 --> 00:32:00,690

And my partnership with my

wife is at the heart of that.

681

32:00 ,690 --> 00:32:04,340

And there were lots of times in my

government career where I couldn't, I

682

32:04 ,340 --> 00:32:05,960

couldn't share information with her.

683

32:06 ,400 --> 00:32:07,630

Marc Preston: And that

had to be so difficult.

684

32:07 ,640 --> 00:32:11,729

That way it wasn't, I mean, not being

able to come home from work and, you

685

32:11 ,730 --> 00:32:15,520

know, I've had friends in the military

who are career officers who have a

686

32:15 ,520 --> 00:32:19,000

security clearance and they can't come

home and talk about their day at work.

687

32:19 ,380 --> 00:32:22,280

And that just, you know, where

you can't really share it.

688

32:22 ,300 --> 00:32:24,240

What, I mean, what is that like for you?

689

32:24 ,600 --> 00:32:26,750

James Comey: It's an obstacle and it.

690

32:27 ,590 --> 00:32:32,400

It's a, it's a cloud over relationship,

but then you get used to it because

691

32:33 ,840 --> 00:32:38,590

we both knew I can't, I can share with

you how I'm feeling about something.

692

32:38 ,600 --> 00:32:41,579

It's very frustrating or

I'm angry or I'm concerned.

693

32:41 ,900 --> 00:32:45,119

I just can't tell you the particulars

cause you don't have a clearance.

694

32:45 The Impact of Public Scrutiny

32:45 ,529 --> 00:32:48,570

And so you get, you really get

used to it, but I'll tell you what,

695

32:48 ,570 --> 00:32:52,490

that, that movie, the Comey rule,

you don't have to have met my wife.

696

32:52 ,490 --> 00:32:55,080

If you've seen the movie,

because the British American

697

32:55 ,080 --> 00:32:58,525

actor, Jennifer Ely, is my wife.

698

32:59 ,005 --> 00:33:03,185

I was freaked out when I saw that

movie because she looks like her.

699

33:03 ,185 --> 00:33:04,325

She moves like her.

700

33:04 ,325 --> 00:33:05,355

She talks like her.

701

33:05 ,835 --> 00:33:09,685

She has her clothes down to every detail.

702

33:10 ,085 --> 00:33:11,544

Marc Preston: Now, did she

talk to your wife though?

703

33:11 ,545 --> 00:33:12,814

Did they have a sit down on the

704

33:12 ,814 --> 00:33:14,645

James Comey: phone, on the phone?

705

33:15 ,024 --> 00:33:16,114

They had never met.

706

33:16 ,554 --> 00:33:18,305

And so I was struck by that.

707

33:18 ,305 --> 00:33:21,585

And the other thing that movie does that

I actually had a very emotional reaction

708

33:21 ,595 --> 00:33:26,055

to seeing it the first time I started

crying because It showed me something that

709

33:26 ,055 --> 00:33:32,505

I'm ashamed to admit I missed, and that

is the pain my family was feeling from

710

33:32 ,555 --> 00:33:34,745

the shots that were being taken at me.

711

33:34 ,775 --> 00:33:39,215

That, because when you love someone,

it's in a way, it's easier to be the

712

33:39 ,215 --> 00:33:42,534

someone, because you can put on a hard

shell and say, screw these people.

713

33:42 ,535 --> 00:33:43,554

I know I'm doing the right thing.

714

33:43 ,554 --> 00:33:48,690

I don't, but when, When the ricochets,

when a family member is watching that all

715

33:48 ,690 --> 00:33:54,140

around you, it causes them a tremendous

pain that I did not fully appreciate.

716

33:54 ,200 --> 00:33:56,350

And so I remember that

hitting me like a wave.

717

33:56 ,460 --> 00:33:56,660

Marc Preston: Yeah.

718

33:56 ,660 --> 00:33:59,290

And I think there's one senior

daughter said she can't even go to

719

33:59 ,290 --> 00:34:04,280

school because people would be saying

things and, and people are only

720

34:04 ,280 --> 00:34:07,050

half educated on what's really going

on when you know the full story.

721

34:07 ,050 --> 00:34:09,230

And that, that's, that's, you

know, one of the one question I had

722

34:09 ,230 --> 00:34:13,650

for you with, again, I'll go back

to your closet that they showed.

723

34:14 ,955 --> 00:34:19,015

All the same color suits, you know, the

attorneys, I know again, career, uh,

724

34:19 ,025 --> 00:34:22,415

military officers, their procedures,

there's protocols, especially when

725

34:22 ,415 --> 00:34:24,175

you work for, you know, in government.

726

34:24 ,585 --> 00:34:28,115

And I feel like, uh, it articulated

very well, the story of what it

727

34:28 ,115 --> 00:34:32,355

was like, everybody talked about

the emails and Hillary's emails.

728

34:32 ,365 --> 00:34:34,155

Well, if people could say that.

729

34:34 ,210 --> 00:34:36,870

But when you kind of get dive in

a little bit deeper, well, there's

730

34:36 ,870 --> 00:34:38,260

certain protocols you have to follow.

731

34:38 ,260 --> 00:34:40,730

And I think people were kind

of living in an era now.

732

34:40 ,730 --> 00:34:44,520

And I wonder as an attorney, as somebody

who's worked in government, do you feel

733

34:44 ,520 --> 00:34:47,879

the difference of people think that law

is a lot more malleable now, as opposed

734

34:47 ,880 --> 00:34:49,490

to, okay, we got to do this thing.

735

34:49 ,500 --> 00:34:53,945

That's this is if we don't do this

and we'll be, But hanging ourselves up

736

34:53 ,945 --> 00:34:55,645

and put ourselves in a bad situation.

737

34:56 ,115 --> 00:35:00,135

Do you think that that that's

something that kind of got missed?

738

35:00 ,405 --> 00:35:03,814

Hopefully I'm articulating my question

well, but you know, where people kind of

739

35:03 ,824 --> 00:35:07,605

miss the idea, well, you had to do certain

things or else you would be negligent in

740

35:07 ,605 --> 00:35:09,724

executing the things you've got to do.

741

35:09 ,724 --> 00:35:10,674

And that's where I think that.

742

35:11 ,070 --> 00:35:13,670

Unfairly, people, you know,

kind of, you know, they, I guess

743

35:13 ,670 --> 00:35:15,750

they needed a boogeyman for lack

of a better way of putting it.

744

35:15 ,770 --> 00:35:19,730

But do you think we are in an

era now where, where, where law

745

35:19 ,770 --> 00:35:21,919

is, is a little bit malleable?

746

35:22 ,360 --> 00:35:23,610

James Comey: Yeah, I hope not.

747

35:23 Legal System and Truth

35:23 ,669 --> 00:35:30,820

And I actually think one of the One of

the shining lights in recent history

748

35:30 ,820 --> 00:35:37,169

in America at a time of turbulence and

division has been our legal system that

749

35:37 ,169 --> 00:35:42,129

judges, no matter their background,

Republicans, Democrats, neither state,

750

35:42 ,140 --> 00:35:48,575

local, federal, have shown people

That this is how it works, right?

751

35:48 ,575 --> 00:35:52,765

That it's, we have a system and it's

a system that's imperfect, but it's

752

35:52 ,765 --> 00:35:57,914

a system that's just because it's

regularized that no matter who you are,

753

35:58 ,395 --> 00:36:01,234

you have a certain set of rights, but

you don't have privileges that come

754

36:01 ,234 --> 00:36:03,144

with being a special kind of person.

755

36:03 ,564 --> 00:36:04,265

And so.

756

36:04 ,695 --> 00:36:09,305

Bring us the facts that our legal system

is devised is devised to find truth

757

36:09 ,315 --> 00:36:14,715

through the collision of viewpoints

and Heaven help you if you testify as

758

36:14 ,715 --> 00:36:20,054

a as a witness or you speak as a lawyer

and you don't speak the truth You will

759

36:20 ,054 --> 00:36:22,125

be held severely accountable for that.

760

36:22 ,835 --> 00:36:26,370

That's a very cool thing And,

and that's not a political thing.

761

36:26 ,370 --> 00:36:27,840

That is a foundational thing.

762

36:27 ,850 --> 00:36:30,500

Marc Preston: You know, you really

look at what's Trump and guilty

763

36:30 ,500 --> 00:36:32,120

and it was a sham and all that.

764

36:32 ,120 --> 00:36:32,980

It was like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

765

36:32 ,980 --> 00:36:34,449

I've sat on a jury before.

766

36:34 ,460 --> 00:36:37,730

You know, it's, you sit down with

other people, there is a process and

767

36:37 ,730 --> 00:36:41,600

the process where he may not like the

outcome, but it seemed to have worked.

768

36:41 ,660 --> 00:36:46,690

And that's the thing that what you just

said, that's, If you're feeling like

769

36:46 ,690 --> 00:36:50,700

you're in a dark spot about everything

else going on, at least that's still, for

770

36:50 ,730 --> 00:36:52,740

right now, still kind of a bright spot.

771

36:52 ,860 --> 00:36:56,609

James Comey: Yeah, and look at,

look at what our, our legal culture,

772

36:56 ,609 --> 00:36:59,159

and I say it that way because

it's broader than just judges.

773

36:59 ,920 --> 00:37:01,479

It's jurors, it's prosecutors.

774

37:01 ,720 --> 00:37:05,370

It's bar associations, it's individual

attorneys, look at how they conducted

775

37:05 ,370 --> 00:37:10,639

themselves in the, in the face of a

torrent of lies about the 2020 election.

776

37:10 ,639 --> 00:37:13,920

They were 60 or more lawsuits

at all different levels.

777

37:14 ,339 --> 00:37:17,340

They were all thrown out

because the facts weren't there.

778

37:17 ,620 --> 00:37:20,489

You can say whatever you want at

a press conference at Four Seasons

779

37:20 ,489 --> 00:37:25,520

Total Landscape, but, but, but when

you come into a courtroom and you

780

37:25 ,520 --> 00:37:29,210

raise your right hand, or you stand

up as a lawyer, make a representation,

781

37:29 ,210 --> 00:37:30,890

I meant it, heaven help you.

782

37:31 ,715 --> 00:37:33,965

If you were saying things

that are knowingly false,

783

37:34 ,175 --> 00:37:36,935

Marc Preston: it may have been Bill

Maher, I think it was last week's show.

784

37:37 ,265 --> 00:37:40,535

They played what, let's say Rudy Giuliani

had been saying for a long time, then

785

37:40 ,535 --> 00:37:42,095

they played what he said in court.

786

37:42 ,645 --> 00:37:46,095

And then of course it's, it's none

of this, uh, fanciful storytelling.

787

37:46 ,185 --> 00:37:51,495

It is, uh, black and white as things

seem to be, uh, and as rather boring

788

37:51 ,495 --> 00:37:52,800

as they seem to be at, at least.

789

37:53 ,165 --> 00:37:56,445

you know, there's a process

for getting to the truth.

790

37:56 ,815 --> 00:38:00,275

And that's the one thing that I, you

know, it's not even a political thing.

791

38:00 ,315 --> 00:38:03,615

It's we're living in an era that

for somebody like yourself has got

792

38:03 ,615 --> 00:38:06,914

to be a little bit maddening when

you're going, you know, and again,

793

38:06 ,915 --> 00:38:11,785

I go back to the movie, um, is going

back and forth between, this is

794

38:11 ,785 --> 00:38:13,875

what's going on and, and, and being.

795

38:14 ,380 --> 00:38:16,970

Manipulate it into trying

to make it something else.

796

38:16 The Comey Rule and Real-Life Events

38:16 ,970 --> 00:38:19,860

And as I was watching it a little

while back, I was like, if I have

797

38:19 ,860 --> 00:38:22,890

a chance to speak with him, I need

to ask, was it really just a one

798

38:22 ,890 --> 00:38:24,520

on one dinner with you and Trump?

799

38:24 ,669 --> 00:38:26,330

Did that actually happen?

800

38:26 ,400 --> 00:38:26,880

Yes.

801

38:27 ,390 --> 00:38:27,940

James Comey: And that.

802

38:28 ,315 --> 00:38:32,805

Yeah, and they, they seem to have

drawn the dialogue precisely from a

803

38:32 ,805 --> 00:38:35,445

memo that I wrote afterwards about

what had happened at the dinner.

804

38:35 ,835 --> 00:38:40,265

And so that is, the only thing different

is I noticed they have us at a tiny

805

38:40 ,275 --> 00:38:44,445

little table, which is true, but he was

sitting on the opposite side from me

806

38:44 ,475 --> 00:38:45,765

than the way they have it in the movie.

807

38:45 ,775 --> 00:38:48,554

Otherwise it's, it's exactly the same.

808

38:49 ,015 --> 00:38:50,555

And I expected a group dinner.

809

38:51 ,030 --> 00:38:55,500

Because presidents don't meet socially

one on one with FBI directors.

810

38:55 ,500 --> 00:38:58,710

We, we haven't wanted that

since Watergate, since J.

811

38:58 ,710 --> 00:38:59,370

Edgar Hoover.

812

38:59 ,730 --> 00:39:03,370

And so the idea that we'd be

meeting alone didn't enter my mind.

813

39:03 ,370 --> 00:39:06,240

I thought it would be all the

other heads of the intelligence,

814

39:06 ,679 --> 00:39:07,950

uh, community agencies.

815

39:07 ,950 --> 00:39:11,150

And it turned out it was just the

two of us sitting at this table.

816

39:11 ,630 --> 00:39:13,430

Marc Preston: I, I would

have gotten, I'm not chills.

817

39:13 ,600 --> 00:39:16,500

I would have, I would have had a

very sinking feeling knowing that

818

39:16 ,500 --> 00:39:19,260

this is the direction we're going

and what is this going to mean,

819

39:19 ,579 --> 00:39:21,349

not just for your job, but for.

820

39:21 ,700 --> 00:39:24,640

The rule of law, I was sitting there

going, thank God, that's not my job.

821

39:24 ,640 --> 00:39:28,230

I, cause to see your name in the

newspaper and have it, you're seeing

822

39:28 ,230 --> 00:39:30,349

all these different narratives out

there, depending on what's on the

823

39:30 ,350 --> 00:39:32,629

news to go to the end of the movie.

824

39:32 ,629 --> 00:39:34,779

There was a, there was a

quote that I think that when

825

39:34 ,780 --> 00:39:36,870

you were, you know, let go.

826

39:37 ,489 --> 00:39:40,500

And, uh, Jeff Daniels has said,

there was so much I wanted to do.

827

39:41 ,040 --> 00:39:42,540

What was on your.

828

39:43 ,470 --> 00:39:46,990

Agenda, if you will, maybe the checklist

or some bullet points that you didn't

829

39:46 ,990 --> 00:39:50,870

get to, that you felt that you could

have brought something to the FBI,

830

39:50 ,880 --> 00:39:53,020

had you been able to stay in place a

831

39:53 Diversity and Transformation in the FBI

39:53 ,020 --> 00:39:53,730

James Comey: little bit longer.

832

39:53 ,819 --> 00:39:57,619

I was excited about having a 10

year term because it is nothing

833

39:58 ,019 --> 00:39:59,380

that long in the government.

834

39:59 ,800 --> 00:40:04,810

And I thought the way the FBI could

get better is by me spending 10 years

835

40:05 ,420 --> 00:40:07,349

focusing every single day on the FBI.

836

40:07 ,720 --> 00:40:11,300

I'm trying to improve its leadership

and trying to attract to the

837

40:11 ,300 --> 00:40:14,670

organization a broader swath of people.

838

40:15 ,220 --> 00:40:20,100

Eighty some percent of our special

agents were non Hispanic, Caucasian,

839

40:20 ,100 --> 00:40:23,360

white, and 80 percent of them were male.

840

40:23 ,370 --> 00:40:25,100

There's nothing wrong with

being a white male, I am one.

841

40:25 ,530 --> 00:40:29,240

But as the country becomes more

complicated, in my view more

842

40:29 ,240 --> 00:40:32,210

wonderful, but no matter what

you think, it's more complicated.

843

40:32 ,780 --> 00:40:37,420

We as an FBI to be effective

have to attract a broader array

844

40:37 ,420 --> 00:40:38,840

of people to the organization.

845

40:39 ,230 --> 00:40:40,769

And so that was my mission.

846

40:40 ,769 --> 00:40:42,390

Those are closely related missions.

847

40:42 ,800 --> 00:40:46,130

And I was making progress because

it wasn't about standards.

848

40:46 ,130 --> 00:40:49,199

We didn't need to change our standards

because the talent was out there.

849

40:49 ,199 --> 00:40:50,530

They just didn't know that they should.

850

40:50 ,900 --> 00:40:54,390

Take a cut and pay and absorb enormous

stress and come work for the FBI.

851

40:55 ,670 --> 00:41:00,960

Ironically, the day I was fired, I was

in Los Angeles to meet that evening

852

41:00 ,960 --> 00:41:08,999

with 750 engineers, uh, MBAs and lawyers

under the age of 37, which was our

853

41:08 ,999 --> 00:41:15,120

cutoff, who were underrepresented groups,

mostly Latino and black men and women.

854

41:15 ,180 --> 00:41:18,810

And I was going to walk out of

that evening with half of them

855

41:18 ,810 --> 00:41:20,649

applying to be FBI special agents.

856

41:21 ,015 --> 00:41:22,885

And I knew that because

I had done it in Houston.

857

41:22 ,885 --> 00:41:24,045

I had done it in D.

858

41:24 ,045 --> 00:41:24,395

C.

859

41:24 ,945 --> 00:41:26,445

Marc Preston: There are cultural

things that they're going to be

860

41:26 ,445 --> 00:41:29,935

able to dial into, uh, and that

becomes an asset for an age.

861

41:29 ,935 --> 00:41:32,405

And I'm assuming when they

get into a community, yes.

862

41:33 ,165 --> 00:41:35,445

James Comey: And, and to make

the institution more effective.

863

41:35 ,445 --> 00:41:39,435

I used to say to people would ask

inside the organization, is this some

864

41:39 ,435 --> 00:41:42,034

sort of diversity virtue signaling?

865

41:42 ,035 --> 00:41:43,885

And I would say, look, I'm not

even sure what you mean by that,

866

41:44 ,535 --> 00:41:46,095

but it's about effectiveness.

867

41:46 ,125 --> 00:41:50,785

If we are going to be effective in

America, everybody can't look like me.

868

41:51 ,430 --> 00:41:54,780

Because we'd be less effective at

walking up the doorways and convincing

869

41:54 ,780 --> 00:41:58,590

people to trust us in front of juries,

all the things we do every day.

870

41:58 ,610 --> 00:42:00,850

And so, that was my mission at the FBI.

871

42:01 ,170 --> 00:42:03,990

And my great regret is I

only got four years to do it.

872

42:04 ,450 --> 00:42:07,989

Now, I've heard from a lot of

agents that we got momentum

873

42:07 ,989 --> 00:42:09,610

going, and so it has continued.

874

42:09 ,919 --> 00:42:13,660

But that's my, and this is the part of the

FBI no one knew anything about outside.

875

42:13 ,990 --> 00:42:17,220

But it was the most important thing I

was doing, was trying to transform it.

876

42:17 ,320 --> 00:42:19,200

Marc Preston: I was curious for

Andrew McCabe as he came in,

877

42:19 ,240 --> 00:42:21,009

because he just saw you essentially.

878

42:21 ,380 --> 00:42:24,790

In a buzzsaw, what was the

general tone when you were kind

879

42:24 ,790 --> 00:42:26,240

of handing the keys off to him?

880

42:26 ,270 --> 00:42:30,660

And, and just, you know, is it, was it

just a sense of like, things are changing

881

42:30 ,660 --> 00:42:34,859

or we've got to kind of, we got to keep

this ship afloat or just generally what,

882

42:34 ,860 --> 00:42:36,660

what, what was that transition point?

883

42:36 ,670 --> 00:42:37,100

Like

884

42:37 ,189 --> 00:42:43,690

James Comey: it was a much more

fraught moment because it was a crisis

885

42:43 ,690 --> 00:42:45,020

in at least a couple of respects.

886

42:45 ,350 --> 00:42:46,630

First of all, I was fired.

887

42:46 ,640 --> 00:42:48,440

The president fired me on TV.

888

42:48 ,735 --> 00:42:52,235

And I found out about it from the

news and I was in Los Angeles.

889

42:52 ,275 --> 00:42:55,805

And so immediately Andy

became acting director.

890

42:55 ,825 --> 00:42:56,805

So there was no transition.

891

42:56 ,815 --> 00:42:59,635

I was 3000 miles away and

no longer in the government.

892

42:59 ,915 --> 00:43:04,195

So actually the first decision

he needed to make was could

893

43:04 ,195 --> 00:43:05,955

I fly home on the FBI plane?

894

43:06 ,654 --> 00:43:07,244

And.

895

43:08 ,540 --> 00:43:10,430

Marc Preston: So that, that

part of the story was actually

896

43:10 ,430 --> 00:43:13,630

happened and then, and then, okay.

897

43:13 ,630 --> 00:43:16,809

So it seems like that'd be the

noble and on, you know, thing

898

43:16 ,809 --> 00:43:18,420

to do is you got to get home.

899

43:18 ,520 --> 00:43:19,769

You know, you have a support staff.

900

43:19 ,780 --> 00:43:21,429

James Comey: Well, as he said,

also, we're responsible for

901

43:21 ,429 --> 00:43:23,239

protecting this human being's life.

902

43:23 ,610 --> 00:43:26,000

We can't, we've got all

these agents protecting them.

903

43:26 ,000 --> 00:43:28,160

We can't leave them in Los

Angeles and drive away.

904

43:28 ,160 --> 00:43:32,000

And so that very much upset

the then president Trump.

905

43:32 ,355 --> 00:43:35,555

Who demanded an investigation

from Andy in a phone call.

906

43:35 ,555 --> 00:43:37,715

And he said, look, I can investigate

it, but I know the answer.

907

43:37 ,735 --> 00:43:38,715

I authorized it.

908

43:39 ,125 --> 00:43:40,045

We're responsible.

909

43:40 ,495 --> 00:43:42,095

Responsible for getting the man home.

910

43:42 ,105 --> 00:43:42,765

God, that's gonna be

911

43:45 ,725 --> 00:43:47,795

Marc Preston: Well, you got a guy

sucking all the air out of the rooms

912

43:47 ,795 --> 00:43:51,755

like listen, we got a job to do It's

it's you kind of feel like you're playing

913

43:51 ,764 --> 00:43:53,454

whack a mole with all these things.

914

43:53 ,455 --> 00:43:55,295

It's like I can't even imagine.

915

43:55 ,344 --> 00:43:58,615

Uh, I would I would be taking antacids

916

43:59 ,185 --> 00:44:00,745

James Comey: I'm sure he did

but i'll tell you one of the

917

44:00 ,745 --> 00:44:01,815

cool things about the bureau.

918

44:01 Calm Leadership in Crisis

44:01 ,815 --> 00:44:10,450

It's culture is that as things get hairier

People speak more slowly and more quietly.

919

44:10 ,450 --> 00:44:14,500

And there's an expression in the bureau

when the shit is hitting the fan.

920

44:15 ,235 --> 00:44:20,015

And people come in to tell you that you

say, as the leader, and I'll say it in

921

44:20 ,015 --> 00:44:22,285

exactly the voice I would use, say more.

922

44:23 ,075 --> 00:44:23,525

Marc Preston: Mm hmm.

923

44:23 ,775 --> 00:44:27,084

James Comey: And you say it in that

way, and I picked this up from the other

924

44:27 ,085 --> 00:44:30,795

leaders of the FBI and I copied them,

because it takes the temperature down.

925

44:30 ,805 --> 00:44:33,884

It sends a message like,

okay, we're gonna be okay.

926

44:33 ,884 --> 00:44:36,025

Okay, you're coming in to tell

me the building's on fire.

927

44:36 ,235 --> 00:44:36,865

Say more.

928

44:36 ,885 --> 00:44:39,235

What floors and what

are we doing about it?

929

44:39 ,705 --> 00:44:43,575

And so I I'm guessing I wasn't party to

any of the conversations after I was fired

930

44:43 ,585 --> 00:44:47,545

because I was completely cut off, but

I'll bet there were a lot of calm, quiet

931

44:47 ,545 --> 00:44:52,355

conversations that underneath was the

stomach boiling that would be Dan Essence.

932

44:52 ,975 --> 00:44:55,495

Marc Preston: Well, I think that's even in

the military is the same kind of concept.

933

44:55 ,495 --> 00:44:58,795

I, in fact, I heard Clint Eastwood,

um, I'm going to mingle this up.

934

44:58 ,795 --> 00:45:03,715

And I'm paraphrasing is like, basically

when everything is just hitting the fan,

935

45:03 ,815 --> 00:45:07,085

you know, maybe from the perspective

of a movie director, you know, become

936

45:07 ,094 --> 00:45:08,795

the calmest person in the room.

937

45:09 ,125 --> 00:45:12,115

And it's sometimes it's very

hard to do, you know, uh, it is,

938

45:12 ,125 --> 00:45:13,875

especially you've got five children.

939

45:13 ,875 --> 00:45:17,325

So I'm sure sometimes like to be the

calmest person has been a challenge,

940

45:17 ,325 --> 00:45:21,445

you know, but you know, here you, here,

you've got this whole life experience.

941

45:21 Writing and Real-Life Inspiration

45:21 ,445 --> 00:45:26,504

How much are you pulling from this

when you write like Westport and you

942

45:26 ,504 --> 00:45:28,219

coming up with ideas for other things?

943

45:29 ,550 --> 00:45:32,970

Are there just things like,

Oh, I remember this case.

944

45:33 ,010 --> 00:45:35,670

And that just creates

a whole story for you.

945

45:35 ,730 --> 00:45:39,150

You know, do you feel like you've got a

very deep well to pull from right now?

946

45:39 ,410 --> 00:45:39,770

James Comey: Yes.

947

45:39 ,800 --> 00:45:40,319

I hope so.

948

45:40 ,320 --> 00:45:46,270

I mean, that's, that's what I plan to do

is take real life experience and obviously

949

45:46 ,270 --> 00:45:51,509

make it fiction by changing people and

situations, but, but have it be real.

950

45:51 ,559 --> 00:45:52,950

I'd like this to be.

951

45:53 ,510 --> 00:45:56,370

Some of the realest crime

fiction people have seen.

952

45:56 ,380 --> 00:45:59,540

And, and a lot of times, I haven't

read a ton of crime fiction, but

953

45:59 ,540 --> 00:46:03,400

I know a lot of successful books

involve, you know, prosecutors or

954

46:03 ,400 --> 00:46:05,439

agents who go rogue in some way.

955

46:05 ,889 --> 00:46:08,740

And, and that's a vehicle for

making it exciting, and that's cool.

956

46:09 ,100 --> 00:46:15,030

But I think I've seen enough that's really

exciting without anybody going rogue.

957

46:15 ,450 --> 00:46:18,700

And so I think there's stories still

to be told, and eventually I will

958

46:18 ,700 --> 00:46:19,644

bring the readers to those stories.

959

46:20 ,575 --> 00:46:22,635

Out of the New York

metropolitan area to D.

960

46:22 ,635 --> 00:46:22,995

C.

961

46:22 ,995 --> 00:46:26,245

and take them to the White House and

the CIA and the FBI and those places.

962

46:26 ,975 --> 00:46:29,504

It has felt a little too icky for

me, so I haven't gotten there yet.

963

46:29 ,505 --> 00:46:30,855

But yes, real life stories.

964

46:30 ,895 --> 00:46:32,015

Marc Preston: Where are you writing?

965

46:32 ,025 --> 00:46:33,165

Are you, are you at home?

966

46:33 ,174 --> 00:46:34,324

We got you in a little office space.

967

46:34 ,325 --> 00:46:37,504

Or is your wife boots you out of the

house to say, go to a lake house,

968

46:37 ,504 --> 00:46:38,794

go somewhere with your laptop.

969

46:39 ,035 --> 00:46:41,779

Now, where is your

preferred venue for writing?

970

46:42 ,500 --> 00:46:45,190

You know, practicing that thing,

you learned that typing skill

971

46:45 ,190 --> 00:46:46,030

you learned in high school.

972

46:46 ,060 --> 00:46:49,690

James Comey: I like to sit in a

rocking chair on my back porch of

973

46:49 ,690 --> 00:46:54,709

a screened in porch, and I have a

heater out there so I can try and do

974

46:54 ,709 --> 00:46:56,180

it as much year round as possible.

975

46:56 ,180 --> 00:46:58,450

I like to sit there in the

rocking chair with my laptop.

976

46:59 ,609 --> 00:47:03,410

Something about that place, because I have

some trees in my backyard, I can look up

977

47:03 ,470 --> 00:47:07,350

while I'm trying to formulate a thought,

stare at the trees, then look back down.

978

47:07 ,830 --> 00:47:11,535

And so if If weather permits,

and sometimes it gets cold

979

47:11 ,535 --> 00:47:12,885

in Virginia, I will do it

980

47:12 ,945 --> 00:47:13,415

Marc Preston: there.

981

47:13 ,515 --> 00:47:15,075

Now, is there coffee involved?

982

47:15 ,075 --> 00:47:16,265

Is there a glass of wine?

983

47:16 ,265 --> 00:47:18,015

I mean, what is, what's the setup for you?

984

47:18 ,285 --> 00:47:19,485

James Comey: I can't do wine.

985

47:19 ,485 --> 00:47:24,055

I love wine, but, but something

about it, it mellows me.

986

47:24 ,055 --> 00:47:30,145

Maybe that takes the edge off that

I need a little bit, but I will, uh,

987

47:30 ,175 --> 00:47:32,925

it depends on what time of day I'm,

I drink coffee in the morning and

988

47:32 ,925 --> 00:47:34,975

probably a diet Pepsi in the afternoon.

989

47:35 ,385 --> 00:47:36,615

And so I'll be sitting there.

990

47:36 ,615 --> 00:47:37,275

There's a little.

991

47:37 ,780 --> 00:47:41,310

circular table next to me,

size of a dinner plate.

992

47:41 ,350 --> 00:47:43,640

I was like, I don't know what

you call a cocktail type table.

993

47:43 ,650 --> 00:47:46,140

It's not a cocktail table,

but I'll, I'll put it there.

994

47:46 ,149 --> 00:47:50,769

I'll sit, I'll steal a cushion

from one of the other chairs

995

47:50 ,770 --> 00:47:52,349

on the deck, put it on my lap.

996

47:52 ,850 --> 00:47:56,800

It's better for me, my wrists to

keep at that angle and put the laptop

997

47:56 ,800 --> 00:47:59,010

on top of that and start typing.

998

47:59 ,010 --> 00:48:03,679

And I, and I don't have a schedule

the way a lot of writers do, I gather

999

48:04 ,019 --> 00:48:06,040

I go until I don't have any gas.

Speaker:1000

48:06 ,130 --> 00:48:07,380

Marc Preston: That's, I think

it's a great way to do it.

Speaker:1001

48:07 ,410 --> 00:48:10,069

You could, I always like to write,

I can always trim stuff out.

Speaker:1002

48:10 ,119 --> 00:48:10,369

James Comey: Yep.

Speaker:1003

48:10 ,469 --> 00:48:12,209

And some days that's six or eight hours.

Speaker:1004

48:12 ,219 --> 00:48:15,060

Some days I try and work

on it for an hour or two.

Speaker:1005

48:15 ,060 --> 00:48:16,820

I'm like, mm, just don't have it.

Speaker:1006

48:18 ,590 --> 00:48:20,530

Marc Preston: Do you have any

desire to do any screenplays or

Speaker:1007

48:20 ,530 --> 00:48:21,920

to even kind of try that out?

Speaker:1008

48:21 ,920 --> 00:48:24,500

And as you're looking at the book,

let's say if you want to take Westport,

Speaker:1009

48:24 ,510 --> 00:48:27,319

you wanted like, okay, if you spoke

to a producer, maybe they wanted to

Speaker:1010

48:27 ,660 --> 00:48:30,150

turn it into a film or a TV series.

Speaker:1011

48:30 ,499 --> 00:48:33,049

Do you have any desire to kind of

play with screenplays or do you just

Speaker:1012

48:33 ,049 --> 00:48:35,909

like to kind of create the story

and then say, Hey, here's the book.

Speaker:1013

48:36 ,080 --> 00:48:38,030

You know, you want to

create a story, go for it.

Speaker:1014

48:38 ,060 --> 00:48:38,870

James Comey: I don't know.

Speaker:1015

48:39 ,760 --> 00:48:40,840

Yeah, that's a good question.

Speaker:1016

48:40 ,840 --> 00:48:44,560

I, I mentioned my imposter complex.

Speaker:1017

48:44 ,570 --> 00:48:46,880

I'm intimidated enough

by what I'm doing now.

Speaker:1018

48:46 ,880 --> 00:48:51,100

I don't love the idea of trying

to get into screenplays because I

Speaker:1019

48:51 ,100 --> 00:48:52,670

have no idea how I would do that.

Speaker:1020

48:52 ,670 --> 00:48:58,269

I saw a little of that when I read the

script for that Billy Ray wrote for,

Speaker:1021

48:58 ,269 --> 00:49:00,110

and he also directed for The Comey Rule.

Speaker:1022

49:00 ,210 --> 00:49:01,290

Marc Preston: Oh, he's a great writer.

Speaker:1023

49:01 ,400 --> 00:49:01,960

And I was like,

Speaker:1024

49:02 ,070 --> 00:49:07,060

James Comey: whoa, with economy

of words, he can create a scene.

Speaker:1025

49:07 ,080 --> 00:49:08,840

And I guess that's what I'm

trying to do in a novel, but.

Speaker:1026

49:09 ,145 --> 00:49:11,325

It just seems very

different in that world.

Speaker:1027

49:11 ,375 --> 00:49:13,685

Marc Preston: But one last question

about the film, and I want to get

Speaker:1028

49:13 ,685 --> 00:49:16,765

to what I call my seven questions as

we kind of wrap up here, but on the,

Speaker:1029

49:16 ,805 --> 00:49:20,615

on the sit down with Jeff Daniels,

for me, it'd be very intimidating.

Speaker:1030

49:20 ,625 --> 00:49:22,325

Here's somebody who's gonna be playing me.

Speaker:1031

49:22 ,325 --> 00:49:24,585

And I'm like, they got to be kind

of like intimidated because we're

Speaker:1032

49:24 ,585 --> 00:49:26,485

meeting the person they're playing

and they want to get it right.

Speaker:1033

49:26 ,485 --> 00:49:29,125

So was it a comfortable kind of sit down?

Speaker:1034

49:29 ,125 --> 00:49:33,365

How many times Joel roughly did y'all

have a chance to connect before he

Speaker:1035

49:33 ,365 --> 00:49:34,605

was like, all right, I got this.

Speaker:1036

49:34 ,760 --> 00:49:35,960

James Comey: Never before.

Speaker:1037

49:36 ,010 --> 00:49:42,660

I mean, I met him one time and they

invited me to come to Toronto to watch

Speaker:1038

49:42 ,660 --> 00:49:50,610

the filming and I happened to go, took one

of my kids and we went there and I didn't

Speaker:1039

49:50 ,620 --> 00:49:57,480

see him until they were filming the dinner

scene, the scene where I was having dinner

Speaker:1040

49:57 ,480 --> 00:50:02,520

alone with President Trump and Brendan

Gleeson and Jeff Daniels did that scene.

Speaker:1041

50:03 ,100 --> 00:50:05,900

And it was one of the coolest

things I've ever watched because

Speaker:1042

50:06 ,210 --> 00:50:07,500

they stayed away from each other.

Speaker:1043

50:07 ,530 --> 00:50:08,740

They didn't rehearse.

Speaker:1044

50:09 ,780 --> 00:50:13,640

They came in together, they sat

down, and they did a scene that goes

Speaker:1045

50:13 ,640 --> 00:50:16,014

on for 15 minutes in a single take.

Speaker:1046

50:16 ,345 --> 00:50:20,515

camera, a single take and, and they

didn't practice cause they wanted

Speaker:1047

50:20 ,515 --> 00:50:23,585

to maintain the distance that I was

feeling and the tension I was feeling.

Speaker:1048

50:24 ,135 --> 00:50:28,015

And then Billy Ray was doing something

that I know nothing about, but that

Speaker:1049

50:28 ,024 --> 00:50:34,504

he was dropping the lighting so slowly

that you don't recognize that the

Speaker:1050

50:34 ,504 --> 00:50:38,065

beginning of the scene, the room is

brightly lit the end of the scene.

Speaker:1051

50:38 ,415 --> 00:50:42,595

All the lights are off except

right over the table, but you

Speaker:1052

50:42 ,595 --> 00:50:44,085

miss it unless you look for it.

Speaker:1053

50:44 ,355 --> 00:50:45,214

But we had never met.

Speaker:1054

50:45 ,224 --> 00:50:46,394

I mean, so I didn't answer your question.

Speaker:1055

50:46 ,394 --> 00:50:48,255

We, we met there on the set.

Speaker:1056

50:49 ,165 --> 00:50:52,755

And he and Gleason asked

me how they were doing.

Speaker:1057

50:52 ,755 --> 00:50:55,945

And I said, the highest

compliment I can pay you.

Speaker:1058

50:55 ,955 --> 00:51:00,765

You've just ruined my day because

you took me back to this moment.

Speaker:1059

51:00 ,795 --> 00:51:02,574

And I feel it's so real.

Speaker:1060

51:02 ,575 --> 00:51:05,794

And then I said to Jeff, and by the

way, could you act a little taller?

Speaker:1061

51:05 ,884 --> 00:51:06,784

How tall are you?

Speaker:1062

51:06 ,795 --> 00:51:07,875

You're you six, six.

Speaker:1063

51:07 ,924 --> 00:51:08,604

I'm six, eight.

Speaker:1064

51:08 ,605 --> 00:51:08,715

Okay.

Speaker:1065

51:08 ,715 --> 00:51:09,145

Okay.

Speaker:1066

51:09 ,805 --> 00:51:09,920

Yeah.

Speaker:1067

51:09 ,920 --> 00:51:11,995

And he said, Are you kidding me?

Speaker:1068

51:12 ,075 --> 00:51:13,345

I have two inch lifts in my shoes.

Speaker:1069

51:13 ,345 --> 00:51:14,045

This is Hollywood.

Speaker:1070

51:14 ,045 --> 00:51:14,675

I'm a giant.

Speaker:1071

51:23 ,075 --> 00:51:25,154

Marc Preston: Before we get going,

I have my something real quick.

Speaker:1072

51:25 ,154 --> 00:51:26,705

I like to do call my seven questions.

Speaker:1073

51:26 ,705 --> 00:51:29,814

I always talk food at least once

during my show because I always

Speaker:1074

51:29 ,814 --> 00:51:31,944

do this around my lunchtime and

haven't had anything to eat yet.

Speaker:1075

51:32 ,525 --> 00:51:34,795

But I was curious, what is

your favorite comfort food?

Speaker:1076

51:35 ,435 --> 00:51:40,885

James Comey: I love

These, um, pretzel splits.

Speaker:1077

51:40 ,895 --> 00:51:47,534

So, so there's like the bow tie pretzel,

extra dark that my wife has found first.

Speaker:1078

51:47 ,745 --> 00:51:50,584

My other comfort food, which I

will have in the morning is my

Speaker:1079

51:50 ,585 --> 00:51:52,204

wife is a really talented baker.

Speaker:1080

51:52 ,205 --> 00:51:55,934

She bakes blueberry muffins, which she

made this morning for my grandchildren.

Speaker:1081

51:56 ,295 --> 00:51:59,074

So I can actually still

smell them in the house.

Speaker:1082

51:59 ,464 --> 00:52:01,314

Those two things would come to my mind.

Speaker:1083

52:01 Personal Reflections and Advice

52:01 ,695 --> 00:52:04,795

Marc Preston: I'm not a big baker,

but I do love the way a house smells

Speaker:1084

52:04 ,805 --> 00:52:08,225

when somebody's been baking, you know,

but now if you were to sit down next

Speaker:1085

52:08 ,225 --> 00:52:11,125

question with three people, you're

going to talk story over coffee, a

Speaker:1086

52:11 ,125 --> 00:52:15,885

few hours living or not, who are those

three people be that you would love to

Speaker:1087

52:15 ,885 --> 00:52:17,914

sit down and share a conversation with?

Speaker:1088

52:20 ,934 --> 00:52:23,534

James Comey: I would love

to talk to Reinhold Niebuhr.

Speaker:1089

52:23 ,925 --> 00:52:28,215

Who was a philosopher and theologian

who had a big impact on me.

Speaker:1090

52:28 ,225 --> 00:52:33,154

He was a huge, a prominent thinker in

the way, especially around World War

Speaker:1091

52:33 ,184 --> 00:52:37,074

II with the helping people reconcile

the problem of evil in the world.

Speaker:1092

52:37 ,614 --> 00:52:40,045

And so I, I think I'd find

that very interesting.

Speaker:1093

52:40 ,634 --> 00:52:43,985

I would, that's a really good question.

Speaker:1094

52:44 ,005 --> 00:52:46,829

I think I would enjoy a

conversation with Barack Obama.

Speaker:1095

52:48 ,050 --> 00:52:49,640

Because you're right.

Speaker:1096

52:49 ,650 --> 00:52:53,290

He interviewed me, came, had me come

back for an hour to talk to him.

Speaker:1097

52:53 ,810 --> 00:52:56,170

And that was the last

time we talked personally.

Speaker:1098

52:56 ,590 --> 00:52:59,369

And I really enjoyed those

conversations with him.

Speaker:1099

53:00 ,270 --> 00:53:01,830

And then who would be a third one?

Speaker:1100

53:03 ,169 --> 00:53:05,079

I probably would be, so

you said living or dead.

Speaker:1101

53:05 ,079 --> 00:53:11,075

I'd love to go Back and talk to one

of my grandfathers in particular, who

Speaker:1102

53:11 ,075 --> 00:53:16,255

I'm told I'm like, I'd love to get his

perspective on his life and his family

Speaker:1103

53:16 ,875 --> 00:53:21,295

And know him in a way I couldn't because

he died when I was a freshman in college

Speaker:1104

53:21 ,525 --> 00:53:22,954

Those are the three that pop into my head

Speaker:1105

53:22 ,964 --> 00:53:25,214

Marc Preston: No, I'm the same way

depending on the day that the people

Speaker:1106

53:25 ,215 --> 00:53:27,974

at the table would change a little bit

My grandfather would be there because

Speaker:1107

53:28 ,434 --> 00:53:31,475

I don't know if you're the same but

do you ever have like a split for me?

Speaker:1108

53:31 ,475 --> 00:53:35,005

It's split second maybe one tenth

of one hundredth of a second.

Speaker:1109

53:35 ,025 --> 00:53:37,645

I'll You I'll, I'll experience

something with one of my kids.

Speaker:1110

53:37 ,915 --> 00:53:41,385

I want to pick up the phone and call

and say, what do you think about this?

Speaker:1111

53:41 ,385 --> 00:53:43,985

Or business or this, that, or the

other, you know, and it's just.

Speaker:1112

53:44 ,385 --> 00:53:45,305

momentary.

Speaker:1113

53:45 ,335 --> 00:53:49,785

Now it's been 20 years since he's passed,

but it's are things about family that

Speaker:1114

53:49 ,785 --> 00:53:53,115

you just don't know at a young age to

ask, you know, that's, that's the thing.

Speaker:1115

53:53 ,115 --> 00:53:56,795

I think it'd be great to have

a grandfather around for, um,

Speaker:1116

53:57 ,095 --> 00:54:00,045

now next question going back.

Speaker:1117

54:00 ,390 --> 00:54:03,150

Young guy, who was your

first celebrity crush?

Speaker:1118

54:03 ,410 --> 00:54:04,610

David Cassidy,

Speaker:1119

54:04 ,970 --> 00:54:05,660

James Comey: believe it or not.

Speaker:1120

54:06 ,030 --> 00:54:14,690

Uh, I, I grew up as a straight kid,

but I found David Cassidy, the 60s

Speaker:1121

54:14 ,719 --> 00:54:20,229

into early 70s singer, so cool that

I had post his posters on my wall.

Speaker:1122

54:20 ,780 --> 00:54:26,215

And So I think I would throw,

I mean, it was a boy crush on,

Speaker:1123

54:26 ,225 --> 00:54:28,035

uh, on this cool young singer.

Speaker:1124

54:28 ,305 --> 00:54:29,795

Marc Preston: Yeah, there, there

are those guys out there that are

Speaker:1125

54:29 ,795 --> 00:54:31,415

just like, all the girls love him.

Speaker:1126

54:31 ,415 --> 00:54:35,425

It's like, what is this thing that

they've got that, that no matter, you

Speaker:1127

54:35 ,425 --> 00:54:38,494

know, like, I think, uh, moderate,

like Brad Pitt's got that going on now.

Speaker:1128

54:38 ,495 --> 00:54:40,474

Like, you know, it's like,

he's got that X factor.

Speaker:1129

54:42 ,274 --> 00:54:43,985

James Comey: I didn't want to

see Cassidy in his bathing suit.

Speaker:1130

54:43 ,985 --> 00:54:45,305

I wanted to see Farrah Fawcett.

Speaker:1131

54:45 ,305 --> 00:54:46,595

I got one of her posters.

Speaker:1132

54:46 ,965 --> 00:54:47,505

Later.

Speaker:1133

54:47 ,525 --> 00:54:48,075

So that, of

Speaker:1134

54:48 ,075 --> 00:54:50,735

Marc Preston: course, you, you

grow up back in the seventies.

Speaker:1135

54:50 ,795 --> 00:54:52,435

Of course you had Farrah Fawcett's poster.

Speaker:1136

54:52 ,435 --> 00:54:55,505

I mean, you, you wouldn't have

been a kid back in America.

Speaker:1137

54:55 ,674 --> 00:54:56,394

Exactly.

Speaker:1138

54:56 ,865 --> 00:54:57,805

Uh, now next question.

Speaker:1139

54:57 ,835 --> 00:55:00,924

And if you're going to, you and your

wife are going to go to an exotic

Speaker:1140

55:00 ,925 --> 00:55:02,844

Island, it's somewhere you want to be.

Speaker:1141

55:02 ,854 --> 00:55:05,005

You're not stranded there,

but they don't have internet.

Speaker:1142

55:05 ,100 --> 00:55:09,010

You're going to be there for a year and

you can bring one, uh, album, a little

Speaker:1143

55:09 ,030 --> 00:55:11,480

CD, and you can bring one movie on DVD.

Speaker:1144

55:11 ,650 --> 00:55:15,130

What would the album and what

would the movie be, uh, that

Speaker:1145

55:15 ,130 --> 00:55:16,129

you would bring with you?

Speaker:1146

55:16 ,130 --> 00:55:17,370

James Comey: And does she have to agree?

Speaker:1147

55:17 ,470 --> 00:55:21,379

Marc Preston: Um, well, that's, that's

the diplomacy you and your wife will

Speaker:1148

55:21 ,380 --> 00:55:24,409

have to hash out, but, you know, but

the, uh, but no, I mean, it's, it's

Speaker:1149

55:24 ,420 --> 00:55:28,090

something that you would just, you could

actually go an entire year checking

Speaker:1150

55:28 ,090 --> 00:55:31,210

back in with this movie and this,

and this, uh, and this, uh, album.

Speaker:1151

55:31 ,550 --> 00:55:32,050

I would

Speaker:1152

55:32 ,050 --> 00:55:34,990

James Comey: bring Taylor

Swift's album Folklore.

Speaker:1153

55:36 ,555 --> 00:55:40,805

Which I'm a huge fan of, and I think

she likes it enough that she'd be okay

Speaker:1154

55:40 ,805 --> 00:55:42,525

with me playing that all the time.

Speaker:1155

55:43 ,075 --> 00:55:47,615

In terms of a movie, I would, if

she were here she'd be laughing,

Speaker:1156

55:47 ,895 --> 00:55:51,175

it would definitely be one of

the Jason Bourne, uh, flicks.

Speaker:1157

55:51 ,624 --> 00:55:55,344

Because, actually it might

be Shawshank Redemption.

Speaker:1158

55:55 ,734 --> 00:55:59,875

Because, um, she often points

out that I will watch that.

Speaker:1159

56:00 ,705 --> 00:56:06,265

No matter what part I happen to join

it while channel surfing and I was

Speaker:1160

56:06 ,275 --> 00:56:07,555

like, of course, I mean, come on.

Speaker:1161

56:08 ,025 --> 00:56:10,644

So I think instead of, I

think I would take Shawshank.

Speaker:1162

56:11 ,105 --> 00:56:11,415

Marc Preston: Really?

Speaker:1163

56:11 ,415 --> 00:56:11,835

Okay.

Speaker:1164

56:11 ,844 --> 00:56:12,334

So yeah.

Speaker:1165

56:12 ,335 --> 00:56:13,785

In fact, it's funny saying this.

Speaker:1166

56:13 ,785 --> 00:56:17,585

I, uh, last week I spoke with William

Sadler, uh, who was in a Shawshank

Speaker:1167

56:17 ,585 --> 00:56:20,214

redemption, but that, that's one

of, I think the great stories.

Speaker:1168

56:20 ,294 --> 00:56:24,565

Um, now if the last couple of

questions here, if you were to

Speaker:1169

56:24 ,565 --> 00:56:27,315

define from the time you get up

to the time you, you head to bed.

Speaker:1170

56:28 ,130 --> 00:56:30,370

The component parts of

a perfect day for you.

Speaker:1171

56:30 ,420 --> 00:56:31,020

What would that

Speaker:1172

56:31 ,020 --> 00:56:31,260

James Comey: be?

Speaker:1173

56:31 ,320 --> 00:56:39,805

Coffee with my a wife, hopefully a

muffin, and then yoga with my wife.

Speaker:1174

56:40 ,535 --> 00:56:42,735

We do it, uh, just about every day.

Speaker:1175

56:43 ,404 --> 00:56:47,615

And then, or if I can't do yoga,

it's because my children and their

Speaker:1176

56:47 ,615 --> 00:56:53,365

children have come over, and I'm

going to cook, uh, hamburgers and

Speaker:1177

56:53 ,375 --> 00:56:55,424

hot dogs for them on the grill.

Speaker:1178

56:56 ,135 --> 00:57:00,960

And then, We have a

dinner that my wife makes.

Speaker:1179

57:01 ,060 --> 00:57:02,070

She's a much better cook.

Speaker:1180

57:02 ,110 --> 00:57:04,500

Probably one of her

pastas or a salmon dish.

Speaker:1181

57:04 ,930 --> 00:57:08,700

And then put the kids to bed and

then I sit around with my children

Speaker:1182

57:08 ,700 --> 00:57:10,430

and their partners and play.

Speaker:1183

57:11 ,150 --> 00:57:16,240

Time's up or some other game like

charades, um, while finishing off some

Speaker:1184

57:16 ,260 --> 00:57:18,620

awesome wine that went with the dinner.

Speaker:1185

57:19 ,540 --> 00:57:21,630

And that's about a perfect day in my life.

Speaker:1186

57:21 ,660 --> 00:57:23,160

None of your kids live near you.

Speaker:1187

57:23 ,470 --> 00:57:26,010

Four of my five live near me.

Speaker:1188

57:26 ,429 --> 00:57:28,490

My oldest is a federal

prosecutor in Manhattan.

Speaker:1189

57:28 ,629 --> 00:57:29,100

Oh, really?

Speaker:1190

57:29 ,100 --> 00:57:29,420

Okay.

Speaker:1191

57:29 ,420 --> 00:57:30,229

I don't know what she's thinking.

Speaker:1192

57:30 ,400 --> 00:57:31,319

I don't know what she's thinking.

Speaker:1193

57:31 ,829 --> 00:57:32,849

Uh, who's actually the.

Speaker:1194

57:33 ,620 --> 00:57:36,940

She's the inspiration for my character,

Nora Carlton, my protagonist.

Speaker:1195

57:36 ,970 --> 00:57:45,190

And, but she and her husband and their

one soon to be two kids live in that area.

Speaker:1196

57:45 ,229 --> 00:57:47,659

Marc Preston: Well, you're going to

have a team of grandchildren here soon.

Speaker:1197

57:47 ,990 --> 00:57:52,369

Um, so your house is kind of the

gathering point, I'm assuming.

Speaker:1198

57:52 ,599 --> 00:57:52,809

Okay.

Speaker:1199

57:53 ,189 --> 00:57:54,989

Well, um, now if you weren't doing this.

Speaker:1200

57:55 ,435 --> 00:57:58,555

If your path in life didn't bring

you here, where you had a chance

Speaker:1201

57:58 ,555 --> 00:58:01,865

to work as an attorney, work in

government, what, what other vocation

Speaker:1202

58:01 ,965 --> 00:58:04,215

would you find yourself, uh, in?

Speaker:1203

58:04 ,215 --> 00:58:07,145

Would it be the physician or would

it, would it be something else?

Speaker:1204

58:07 ,444 --> 00:58:12,474

James Comey: I think I would have, easy to

say, inevitably figured out that the world

Speaker:1205

58:12 ,474 --> 00:58:17,345

of science and analytic work was not me.

Speaker:1206

58:17 ,755 --> 00:58:23,685

And so I think I might have been a

journalist or a teacher, or maybe both.

Speaker:1207

58:23 ,875 --> 00:58:25,455

Marc Preston: And I didn't

know your, your daughter was.

Speaker:1208

58:25 ,765 --> 00:58:26,905

And an inspiration for this.

Speaker:1209

58:26 ,915 --> 00:58:27,785

That's, that's very cool.

Speaker:1210

58:27 ,835 --> 00:58:29,235

The last question I got it for you.

Speaker:1211

58:29 ,245 --> 00:58:33,345

If you were to jump in the proverbial

DeLorean travel back in time to 16

Speaker:1212

58:33 ,345 --> 00:58:36,505

year old, uh, you, you're going to

have a conversation for a few minutes.

Speaker:1213

58:36 ,935 --> 00:58:40,105

What would it be the piece of advice

you would offer yourself, uh, either

Speaker:1214

58:40 ,105 --> 00:58:44,094

to make that moment a little bit

better or to put yourself on a path,

Speaker:1215

58:44 ,495 --> 00:58:48,295

uh, you know, a little bit different

path about what would the advice be?

Speaker:1216

58:48 ,295 --> 00:58:49,555

You would offer 16 year old you.

Speaker:1217

58:49 ,935 --> 00:58:51,585

James Comey: I think I would tell me,

Speaker:1218

58:54 ,485 --> 00:58:57,275

so let's say it's, let's say it's

before that terrifying night.

Speaker:1219

58:57 ,335 --> 00:58:58,624

I think I would tell me.

Speaker:1220

59:02 ,015 --> 00:59:03,445

It's gonna be okay.

Speaker:1221

59:04 ,525 --> 00:59:06,715

Don't worry about plans.

Speaker:1222

59:06 ,905 --> 00:59:09,995

Worry about the kind

of person you will be.

Speaker:1223

59:10 ,965 --> 00:59:14,564

And the reason I put it before that

terrifying night is I got a big piece

Speaker:1224

59:14 ,564 --> 00:59:16,025

of that from that terrifying night.

Speaker:1225

59:16 ,520 --> 00:59:20,920

But my advice, and it's been my advice

to my kids, which is, look, the only

Speaker:1226

59:20 ,920 --> 00:59:24,780

thing you need to know is who you want

to have been at the end of your life.

Speaker:1227

59:25 ,130 --> 00:59:27,950

But what is the sentence that

will describe the life you lived?

Speaker:1228

59:28 ,409 --> 00:59:32,139

Because if you, if you keep that as your

frame of reference, the things that get

Speaker:1229

59:32 ,140 --> 00:59:37,640

in the way, houses, cars, money, human

honor, all of that is blown away, and

Speaker:1230

59:37 ,640 --> 00:59:39,860

what's illuminated is what matters to you.

Speaker:1231

59:40 ,310 --> 00:59:44,520

And so just, just, just, Just focus

on that and the rest, you'll be okay.

Speaker:1232

59:44 ,520 --> 00:59:49,900

There'll be all kinds of swerving and

pain and loss and joy and happenstance and

Speaker:1233

59:50 ,210 --> 00:59:51,770

know who you want to have been at the end.

Speaker:1234

59:51 ,940 --> 00:59:55,470

Marc Preston: On that note, uh,

what would that sentence be for you?

Speaker:1235

59:55 ,470 --> 00:59:59,550

Do you think if you were to say, okay,

here's the, uh, not to sound morbid,

Speaker:1236

59:59 ,559 --> 01:00:03,650

but the epitaph, you know, what is the

thing that you would like to, you know,

Speaker:1237

1:00:03 ,650 --> 01:00:05,510

leave as being, this was the Marc I made.

Speaker:1238

1:00:05 ,530 --> 01:00:10,239

James Comey: He was a great

father, husband, grandfather, God

Speaker:1239

1:00:10 ,239 --> 01:00:11,700

willing, maybe great grandfather.

Speaker:1240

1:00:12 ,735 --> 01:00:14,585

And he was useful to

people who needed him.

Speaker:1241

1:00:14 ,665 --> 01:00:15,335

Marc Preston: Very good.

Speaker:1242

1:00:15 ,345 --> 01:00:15,665

Very good.

Speaker:1243

1:00:15 ,665 --> 01:00:16,375

We'll tell you what james.

Speaker:1244

1:00:16 ,475 --> 01:00:18,865

Thank you so much for uh, Or is it jim?

Speaker:1245

1:00:18 ,865 --> 01:00:20,215

What do you like to be

called james or jim?

Speaker:1246

1:00:20 ,485 --> 01:00:24,745

James Comey: well, my all my friends

and family know me as jim, but my the

Speaker:1247

1:00:24 ,824 --> 01:00:29,615

publisher of my first book insisted it

be james because I gave no interviews

Speaker:1248

1:00:29 ,645 --> 01:00:33,715

after I the year after I was fired

And everybody came to know me as james

Speaker:1249

1:00:33 ,735 --> 01:00:35,405

because that's what was on the news.

Speaker:1250

1:00:35 ,805 --> 01:00:37,730

So But I go by Jim,

Speaker:1251

1:00:38 ,010 --> 01:00:40,290

Marc Preston: I appreciate more than,

you know, you taking some time out.

Speaker:1252

1:00:40 ,290 --> 01:00:43,460

I know with a family outside, uh,

hopefully tonight you can make

Speaker:1253

1:00:43 ,460 --> 01:00:46,090

up some hamburgers and hot dogs,

a summer vacation after all.

Speaker:1254

1:00:46 ,229 --> 01:00:48,460

Uh, but have yourself a wonderful week.

Speaker:1255

1:00:48 ,540 --> 01:00:50,490

Go give those kids, grandkids a hug.

Speaker:1256

1:00:50 ,540 --> 01:00:53,600

And, uh, hopefully we'll have a

chance to catch up down the line.

Speaker:1257

1:00:53 ,810 --> 01:00:54,000

Yeah, I'd

Speaker:1258

1:00:54 ,000 --> 01:00:54,300

James Comey: love to.

Speaker:1259

1:00:54 ,300 --> 01:00:55,220

It was a great conversation.

Speaker:1260

1:00:55 ,220 --> 01:00:55,750

Thank you, Marc.

Speaker:1261

1:00:55 ,750 --> 01:00:57,010

And I hope the AC holds

Speaker:1262

1:00:57 ,010 --> 01:00:58,870

Marc Preston: out your,

your mouth to God's ears.

Speaker:1263

1:01:02 ,240 --> 01:01:05,450

Well, there you go, James

Comey, a great conversation.

Speaker:1264

1:01:05 ,450 --> 01:01:06,770

I really enjoyed this one.

Speaker:1265

1:01:07 ,100 --> 01:01:11,080

It's always cool to have someone

sit down with me and I learn things.

Speaker:1266

1:01:11 ,240 --> 01:01:15,010

I had no clue about, not just

about them, but of course the

Speaker:1267

1:01:15 ,010 --> 01:01:16,300

things they were involved in.

Speaker:1268

1:01:16 ,320 --> 01:01:19,280

Of course, he was a very

pivotal character, politically,

Speaker:1269

1:01:19 ,590 --> 01:01:21,160

going back a few years ago.

Speaker:1270

1:01:21 ,230 --> 01:01:22,210

A great story.

Speaker:1271

1:01:22 ,210 --> 01:01:23,100

I really enjoyed it.

Speaker:1272

1:01:23 ,120 --> 01:01:24,220

I hope you did as well.

Speaker:1273

1:01:24 ,380 --> 01:01:28,250

Once again, James Comey's

new novel is called Westport.

Speaker:1274

1:01:28 ,550 --> 01:01:29,430

Check it out right now.

Speaker:1275

1:01:29 ,460 --> 01:01:31,060

It is a great read.

Speaker:1276

1:01:31 ,420 --> 01:01:32,250

Hey, do me a favor.

Speaker:1277

1:01:32 ,250 --> 01:01:35,080

If you would, you got your phone or

your little device sitting there.

Speaker:1278

1:01:35 ,100 --> 01:01:39,120

If you could just follow the

show, follow story and craft.

Speaker:1279

1:01:39 ,480 --> 01:01:41,859

That way you get notified every

time we have a new episode.

Speaker:1280

1:01:41 ,900 --> 01:01:45,529

And if you want to learn anything

about the show, anything about our past

Speaker:1281

1:01:45 ,539 --> 01:01:50,870

guests, pretty much everything story

and craft head to story and craft pod.

Speaker:1282

1:01:51 ,160 --> 01:01:52,000

Dot com.

Speaker:1283

1:01:52 ,000 --> 01:01:54,760

Once again, story and craft pod.com.

Speaker:1284

1:01:55 ,060 --> 01:01:56,380

Uh, you can also shoot me a message.

Speaker:1285

1:01:56 ,380 --> 01:01:57,520

Check in, say howdy.

Speaker:1286

1:01:57 ,850 --> 01:01:59,470

Uh, now I'm gonna get on outta here.

Speaker:1287

1:01:59 ,530 --> 01:02:04,110

Uh, I've got this rambunctious 10 week

old golden retriever puppy, the ranger.

Speaker:1288

1:02:04 ,110 --> 01:02:07,830

He needs my attention and I'm going

to take him for a little stroll.

Speaker:1289

1:02:08 ,180 --> 01:02:12,650

And this tropical storm wind fun we have

going on, uh, on South Padre Island.

Speaker:1290

1:02:12 ,800 --> 01:02:14,360

Yeah, so that's going on.

Speaker:1291

1:02:15 ,650 --> 01:02:16,820

, not a lot of sleep.

Speaker:1292

1:02:17 ,065 --> 01:02:19,595

going on here at the Preston household.

Speaker:1293

1:02:20 ,145 --> 01:02:22,915

Uh, but Hey, do me a favor, have

a great rest of your week or

Speaker:1294

1:02:22 ,915 --> 01:02:24,185

weekend or whatever you're doing.

Speaker:1295

1:02:24 ,215 --> 01:02:27,235

I do appreciate you being here

more than, you know, stay safe.

Speaker:1296

1:02:27 ,255 --> 01:02:30,335

And, uh, we'll talk to you next

time, right here on story and craft.

Speaker:1297

1:02:30 ,615 --> 01:02:33,185

Announcer: That's it for this

episode of story and craft.

Speaker:1298

1:02:33 ,465 --> 01:02:37,475

Join Marc next week for more

conversation right here on story and

Speaker:1299

1:02:37 ,475 --> 01:02:41,745

craft story and craft is a presentation

of Marc Preston productions,

Speaker:1300

1:02:41 ,775 --> 01:02:44,889

LLC executive producer is Marc.

Speaker:1301

1:02:44 ,890 --> 01:02:48,340

Preston Associate Producer

is Zachary Holden.

Speaker:1302

1:02:48 ,640 --> 01:02:52,210

Please rate and review story

and craft on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker:1303

1:02:52 ,210 --> 01:02:56,440

Don't forget to subscribe to the

show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

Speaker:1304

1:02:56 ,590 --> 01:02:58,030

or your favorite podcast app.

Speaker:1305

1:02:58 ,390 --> 01:03:01,360

You can subscribe to, show

updates, and stay in the know.

Speaker:1306

1:03:01 ,510 --> 01:03:05,620

Just head to story and craft pod.com

and sign up for the newsletter.

Speaker:1307

1:03:06 ,190 --> 01:03:07,090

I'm Emma Dylan.

Speaker:1308

1:03:07 ,360 --> 01:03:08,290

See you next time.

Speaker:1309

1:03:08 ,470 --> 01:03:10,900

And remember, keep telling your story.

Speaker:1310

1:03:10 ,900 --> 01:03:11,050

Come out.