Lee Kirk | From “The Giant Mechanical Man” to “Nimrods” | Journey with Sweet Children

00:00 Lee Kirk joins Story & Craft

00:00 Lee Kirk: It started with a text from Billie Joe asking me if I was, uh, you know, if I wanted to talk about doing a Green Day movie, and of course, I was like, "Yes," you know?

00:12 Announcer: Welcome to Story and Craft. Now, here's your host, Marc Preston.

00:17 Marc Preston: All right. Here we go back again, another episode of Story and Craft. Thank you for coming back by.

00:22 Marc Preston: Uh, first episode for you, if this is your first time, welcome. Glad to have you here. It's gonna be a good chat. Uh, today, this, this, this episode's gonna be very special. It may be the only time in my career I'm gonna be able to do an episode like this. Why, might you ask? Well, I'll tell you. Uh, today we are sitting down to chat with writer and director Lee Kirk.

00:44 Marc Preston: Uh, he directed the new movie Nimrods. Cool idea. Kids on a road trip to go see Green Day in concert. It's got McKenna Grace, Mason Thames, of course, Lee's lovely bride in real life, um, Jenna Fischer. And you know, one thing I love about Lee's stuff, everything he's done, uh, it's got a unique tone and a vibe to it.

01:02 Marc Preston: And, uh, I love independent film and, you know, he's just a really talented dude, and we went to high school together. Actually, we went to junior high together. So I've known him since 1980, you know, it's been a long time. Been a long time. But, uh, you know, he has been, uh, out there doing some great stuff, kind of like, uh, Giant Mechanical Man.

01:22 Marc Preston: If you haven't seen it, look it up. It is streaming. It's out there. And of course, he's teamed up with Billie Joe Armstrong from Green Day once before on the film Ordinary World. I really recommend checking out Lee's stuff. Now, even if we didn't go to junior high and high school together, I would still love the work he's done because he's got a, uh, what I'd like to think is a real cool tone.

01:42 Marc Preston: You know, it shows up in all of his films. Of course, so, uh, you're gonna be subjected to a little bit of memory lane. Uh, we're gonna travel down it a little bit. We're gonna be talking about growing up in suburban North Dallas, so strap in. Uh, but he, he's a cool dude. Really enjoyed this conversation. Hey, uh, do me a favor, uh, if you would, make sure to follow Story and Craft.

02:00 Marc Preston: That way you get a notification every time a new episode comes out, uh, you get notified. Boom, there you go. Also, uh, like the show, uh, leave stars, reviews, uh, whatever. Whatever have you, it helps people to find the show, and I, I greatly appreciate that. Also, everything about Story and Craft, just head to storyandcraftpod.com.

02:20 Marc Preston: Past guests, past episodes, it is all right there. Okay, so let's, uh, strap in, get ready for a little trip down Marc's memory lane. Uh, today, great conversation. Let's, uh, get into it because today it's Lee Kirk day right here on Story and Craft. Look at that handsome face right there. How are you doing, sir?

02:40 Lee Kirk: I'm great, Marc. How are you, man?

02:42 Reconnecting after 36 years and reflecting on three decades in entertainment

02:42 Marc Preston: Doing fantastic. Good to see you. It's only been, um, 36 years I think since I've seen your face last.

02:49 Lee Kirk: Oh my God. You're so right, man. It's been a bit.

02:53 Marc Preston: It's been a, it's been- How are you? I, I don't like to think about that because it makes me feel, um... Oh,

02:57 Lee Kirk: man.

02:57 Marc Preston: I hear you. I have, I, I have strong memories, but it's kind of funny because I'm like, "It doesn't feel like that long ago."

03:02 Marc Preston: And then you think of everything that's occurred in life in three decades.

03:06 Lee Kirk: I- 100%, man. 100%. Yeah

03:09 Marc Preston: But I've been, I've been kept up to speed. Y- your lovely sister Robin's been keeping me up to speed on all the good stuff you've been doing, so she, she's your big, uh, cheerleader.

03:17 Lee Kirk: Yeah. Well, she does a good job of that, man.

03:19 Lee Kirk: She's doing well, too. You know, she's doing great in Chicago and living it up.

03:24 Marc Preston: How long have you been in LA?

03:26 Lee Kirk: I've been here for, oh, man, tw- over 20 years. 20, uh, 25 years. About 26 years. Yeah. Wow, okay. I came around, around the millennium. Where are you?

03:37 Marc Preston: Oh, South Padre Island. You know, right, right down on the, right down on the coast.

03:41 Marc Preston: Oh. Spent 20 years in- Look at that ... uh, New Orleans, and, uh, spent some ti- I was in Southern California for a while also. And then my youngest graduated and, uh, and I was like, "God, I gotta get out of... You know, I'm, I'm a Texan. I gotta get out of New Orleans and find my way back to, uh, Texas." But Dallas has gotten to be...

03:58 Marc Preston: Time we grew up, it was big, but now it's like, now it feels more like LA than it does- Mm-hmm ... you know. But, uh-

04:04 Lee Kirk: Yes, sir. I... It gets bigger and b- Every time I go back there, I'm astounded at the growth.

04:09 Marc Preston: The whole city has gotten to be... It reminds me more of Southern California. All these suburbs are squishing up against each other, you know.

04:15 Marc Preston: So, um- For

04:16 Lee Kirk: sure. For sure ...

04:17 Marc Preston: but, uh, but no- Yeah ... man, it w- uh, congratulations on that, on the new film, man. Uh, I am looking forward to seeing it. Thank you. But I gotta know, how long has this been in the pipeline for you? How long have you been working on Nimrods?

04:28 The random text from Billie Joe Armstrong that sparked a Green Day movie

04:28 Lee Kirk: This started about, uh, I think it was about four years ago.

04:32 Lee Kirk: Um, it started with a text from Billie Joe asking me if I was, uh, you know, if I wanted to talk about doing a Green Day movie, and of course I was like, "Yes," you know? And, and, uh, he had, uh, you know, he, he just, he'd always wanted to do a movie kinda like, uh, Rock 'n' Roll High School or Detroit Rock City, some kind of music movie.

04:52 Lee Kirk: And, um, and so all he, all he had was he, he just thought it'd be a, a, a film about, um, people going to see Green Day on a New Year's, at a New Year's Eve, um, concert at, at the Palladium in Hollywood. And that's all he had. So we just started talking about what that, what that idea could be and, uh, came up with a story, came up with these characters.

05:14 Lee Kirk: And then, and then, uh, I realized, you know, I need a lot of fun stuff to happen in this movie to these kids. And, and that's when I, I leaned on the guys, uh, to tell me some stories of, of stuff that happened to them and, and see if I could take those ideas and kind of rework them and, and weave them into the story.

05:32 Turning Green Day's real-life tour stories into movie plot points

05:32 Lee Kirk: And so the e- movie ended up becoming, um, um... It's a fictional film, but it's got Green Day's story kind of, uh, wrapped into it. Um, not just in the hijinks that happens along the way on the road trip, but also, um, you know, Billie Joe's dad died when he was a kid, and so I used that in the story with Tommy having...

05:53 Lee Kirk: and the family going through a crisis. And, and, um, you know, a- but also just fun little things like, you know, they drove around in, in a bookmobile for years. That was their, that was their mode of transportation. Really? So that became, for this, that became an ice cream truck, you know. And there's, there's lots of little Easter eggs like that in- I, I like to say that it's a, it's a movie that has Green Day's fingerprints all over it

06:16 Marc Preston: Was it Ordinary World?

06:17 Marc Preston: Was that the name of the film? Um, I mean, you worked with him- Yeah ... before, right? Yeah, that- Yeah ... but, but wasn't it kind of like he was sort of like a Peter Pan-ish kind of a... He was having a hard time growing up, you know, more or less. He w- wasn't that kind of his character? Yeah. Wasn't that kind of the gist of it?

06:31 Marc Preston: But-

06:31 Lee Kirk: Well, he just was having tr- he was having trouble letting go of the past, you know? He, he was a music guy and, uh, and that, those days are behind him. Now he's a dad and trying to find h- where he fits in- That's

06:42 Marc Preston: right ... in the

06:42 Lee Kirk: world and-

06:43 Marc Preston: The, um, giant mechanical man, right? That, that, that was- Sure.

06:47 Lee Kirk: Yeah ...

06:47 Marc Preston: kind of noticed that between the two it seems like you've already got kind of like your own style, uh, tone.

06:53 Marc Preston: Tone. There seems to be a tone- Sure ... you kind of lock into. Well, you know, I was wondering if you can speak to that at all.

06:59 Lee Kirk: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, I, I, um, I I've realized now that I've made three movies that I tend to write movies about uh, about artists, uh, in some form or another, um, trying to figure out how to express themselves.

07:13 Lee Kirk: Your observation's correct. Thematically, I, I feel like, uh, there, that you can look at all three movies and there's something that's connected through all of them, um, in terms of the tone. Uh, there's a little bit of melancholy probably in all of them, and I try to have some humor. Um-

07:31 Marc Preston: Yeah, like that's what, that's what I picked up on.

07:33 Marc Preston: There's a, there's a little touch of the melancholy and it's sort of, you know, you can't easily put your finger on it, but that's something that you seems like you've really dialed into. But doing the, the origin story, which I think, I think I'm privy to a little bit of it, a little of the origin story, but I know you c- you grew up in Richardson, but didn't...

07:49 Marc Preston: Am I wrong in thinking, didn't you, like in the elementary school years, didn't you grow up somewhere else or where, were you always a Richardson kid?

07:55 Lee Kirk: No, no, you're right. I, I, I moved... Um, I spent each elementary school in a different, a different school. Really? We moved a ton as a kid. Yeah, so we were in V- uh, Colorado Springs and Ventura, California and Denver, uh, and, um, what else?

08:13 Lee Kirk: A- Rapid City, South Dakota. Finally ended up in Dallas, uh, in, uh, late in fifth grade and then, and then I was there. We, you know... So I claim I'm from Dallas even though I'm not actually from Dallas, you know. Well, I think if you get there in elementary- But

08:26 Marc Preston: those formative years ... yeah, I mean, yeah, that's, that's, you were, you were, you were dialed into Dallas, like in those formative years.

08:31 Marc Preston: Yeah. Uh, s- Yeah ... so what was your dad up to? What was his vocation?

08:35 Lee Kirk: Well, he was in the oil business, and that was what's taking him, uh, all over the place was, was energy. Before that it was the, it was the military. He was a, um, he taught at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, so that's why we were there.

08:46 Lee Kirk: Oh, really?

08:46 Marc Preston: Okay.

08:47 Lee Kirk: He taught economics. And then he got into oil, and that's why, you know, we bounced around and of course, and if you're in oil, you're probably gonna end up in, in Texas somehow, so, so that's how we ended up there. Yeah. But I think probably the, you know, the moving around a lot as a kid, I think that, that there's, there was something, uh, in that that probably...

09:05 Lee Kirk: I mean, I'm just thinking off the top of my head right now, but I think that probably lends a little bit to kind of what you're seeing in, in, in the films of, of like, um- There's a little bit of a, uh, all, all the characters in, in, in the movies are a little adrift and they're trying to find their footing.

09:20 How constantly moving across the country as a kid left him feeling adrift

09:20 Marc Preston: Mm-hmm.

09:21 Lee Kirk: And, and, uh, there's probably something in that w- w- you know, the, all the years of kind of... Every j- as soon as I'd get comfortable in a n- in a grade, we would move. So I'd make all these friends, we, we, you know, we'd settle in as a family, we'd start to understand the neighborhood, and then my dad would get a new job and we'd, we'd leave, you know?

09:38 Lee Kirk: So, so it was, it was an odd, it was an odd upbringing. I'm so glad my kids now, my kids are 14 and 12, they're in one school and they're, they're gonna stay in one school till they, you know, till they- Well, yeah ... till they graduate, which is nice. Well,

09:50 Marc Preston: you know, listening to different actors, and actually speaking with all the ones I've spoken with, that there is kind of a common theme a lot of time.

09:56 Marc Preston: There's a couple common themes. One, it's you got the moving around a lot, you know, being, uh, especially kids that are, you know, only c- they're only children. So they're, you know, you're moving around, you're re-introducing yourself, you're kind of in your own head a lot. But y- you had three siblings, am I right, thinking of Robin?

10:13 Marc Preston: You got, it was, you got three siblings, right? Yeah. But still, you're, you're finding your own footing, and so that's kind of a common theme I've found a lot, especially with the actors, you know. Um, but- Sure ... but y'all landed in Richardson. But when did the theater k- th- thing kick off for you? Were you... 'Cause I know...

10:28 Marc Preston: Well, let me see. Okay. Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm going, going back to junior high. You went, you went to North. You're, you're a Viking. I went to North. Yeah. And I-

10:35 Lee Kirk: I'm a Vi- Viking

10:36 Marc Preston: Viking.

10:36 Lee Kirk: I bleed green. Viking green. Yeah.

10:39 Marc Preston: But, uh- Yeah ... remembering,

10:40 Lee Kirk: uh- That's where, that's where it started. I did, did theater in, in, in junior high.

10:44 Lee Kirk: Yeah.

10:44 Marc Preston: Yeah, that was, uh- In North junior high, I did ... was it- Yeah ... was it Mrs. Houston, right? Was, is she? Yeah.

10:49 Lee Kirk: Yeah.

10:49 Marc Preston: Yep. Was it, okay.

10:50 Lee Kirk: Yeah, Mrs. Houston. God, I don't- Yeah ...

10:52 Marc Preston: I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday. Yeah. But I, I remember obviously- That's a good memory, man ... um- I

10:56 Lee Kirk: like how you pulled that out.

10:58 Marc Preston: But she- Yeah

10:58 Marc Preston: but, 'cause I vividly remember she taught speech. And I vividly remember, it's ironic considering what I ended up doing for a living, I could not stand being in front of a class. But, uh, but I didn't remember too much of the theater. Did, was she the theater teacher as well, or, uh, was it somebody-

11:13 Lee Kirk: Yeah. She was the theater teacher, yeah.

11:15 Lee Kirk: So she was sort of the, uh, e- everything that that encompassed, I think that was her, her, her gig. So she taught theater and speech. And we did speech contests, which were, you know, you'd, you'd, uh, get a scene partner, you'd work on a scene, then you'd go to these kind of tournaments, and you'd do them for judges, and you'd, you'd move up the ladder- That's right

11:34 Lee Kirk: and hopefully you'd get to the final. And yeah, and so that was, uh, that was a big part of my- Was, was

11:39 Marc Preston: that- ... of my junior high experience ... kind of the kickoff? Was that... So what, what, when did the bug bite you? Was it right about then when you realized that this is kind of like your thing? I

11:45 Lee Kirk: think it was that then.

11:46 Lee Kirk: Yeah, I mean, y- Mrs. Houston was so good at, uh, she, you know, um, and she was so encouraging. A- and, uh, and I think that, uh- that was helpful to me. And I, and I, and I enjoyed it, and I think that I got a taste of doing it, maybe got some laughs, got some, you know, people responding and I realized, "I kind of like this," you know?

12:05 Lee Kirk: And so, uh, got very involved. Got very involved and, and stayed involved all the way through, through high school and took it into college.

12:12 Marc Preston: Well, yeah- You know? ... going into high school, yeah, I do, I do wanna take a s- a brief moment and, 'cause you, I know you're a theater kid, you know, and I was like-

12:18 Lee Kirk: Yeah ...

12:19 Marc Preston: I didn't realize, if I was to go back to high school, I think I was a theater kid who wasn't in theater.

12:23 Marc Preston: You know, my thing, I loved radio, the theater of the mind kind of a thing. I never re- Mm. Being on stage, I don't know, I never really locked in, and I kind of wish in retrospect if I could go back and, like, try the theater thing out, get on stage, you know. But L- Mm ... Lynn Zednik, head of the theater department, d- wasn't, didn't they do- Yeah

12:40 Marc Preston: like, a documentary about her, about the kids that went through the program, or am I, am I hallucinating that?

12:46 Lee Kirk: I don't know. I- if they did, I'd love to see it. I, I'm not, I'm not sure. She deserves one. She was an incredible teacher. I mean, she put on these amazing productions, and she poured all of her heart into, into the, you know, into that program.

13:00 Lee Kirk: I mean, she was, she was just a fantastic teacher.

13:02 Marc Preston: Yeah. I've seen her in person. So

13:03 Lee Kirk: if there is, yeah, I'd love to see it.

13:04 Marc Preston: When you got into to doing that, uh, come high school, you're on stage, you're acting, was the directing thing part of... W- was kind of like being the, the, the ringmaster? Was that kind of something that was on your mind at that time, or did that come kind of later on?

13:20 Lee Kirk: That came later. That came much later. I, I, at that time, I just loved acting. I'd never even thought about any sort of directing. Um, the dir- the writing and directing came after I graduated from school, moved to LA, and, um, as a, just as an actor. And, you know, the phone wasn't ringing very much. It was ringing for commercials.

13:41 Lee Kirk: I was doing commercials, but there was like, that wasn't really acting. Had a lot of time sitting around, you know, waiting for the phone to ring and, um, feeling kind of powerless really, and, uh, that's when, um, I, I, uh, I got the idea, like, maybe I should try to write something, or maybe I should really try to learn how to write.

14:00 Lee Kirk: Um- Mm-hmm ... and, uh, and, and, and so that, that was kind of what, what started it. I started writing- Oh, really? So

14:06 Marc Preston: you, you weren't even re- writing or doing any of that until you got to LA and, uh, you know, that- Till I got to LA. Oh, really? Okay, okay. So where did you go to school?

14:14 Lee Kirk: I went to school in, in Chicago at DePaul University.

14:16 Lee Kirk: They have the, the theater school at DePaul. It's a conservatory program, which means basically it's, uh, a, a very intense four-year training program where you study all aspects of, of theater and acting and voice and speech and, uh, you know, everything, and it was a, it was a great program, um, intense program.

14:36 Lee Kirk: Um, and, you know, um, I, I, I, I learned a lot. I, I realized that everything I know now about, about directing- And a lot of what I know about writing I sort of learned there by doing, you know, studying acting, 'cause you're breaking down scripts, you're trying to understand scripts and motivations and, and how scenes are structured.

14:58 Lee Kirk: And, and, and so that fed into my, you know, the... When I started writing, that fed into, you know, that skill. But also directing, you know, so much of directing is, is, um, dealing with actors and directing actors. And, and so being on that side of it as a, as an actor, uh, when it became time to be a director, I, I understood how to, how to approach that, you know, and how to talk to actors and kind of empower them and make them feel comfortable and, and, uh, you know, inspire them basically.

15:30 Lee Kirk: I mean, that, that's- It's funny how things work, man. You know, the plans change.

15:33 Marc Preston: When was it you said, "You know what? This is gonna be my thing"? You know, 'cause obviously you went to school to study this. Was it, was it in high school- Yeah ... where you're like, "All right, this is gonna be my jam," you know, on stage, on camera?

15:43 Marc Preston: Was, was that when it kicked off for you?

15:46 Lee Kirk: Pretty much, yeah. I, I, I felt, I felt the love for it. Um, I felt like I should try. I wasn't, I wasn't, um, prepared to just drop everything and move to New York or LA and just like, "I'm gonna jump in with both feet," and I, I, I did feel like I needed to go to a college and, you know, I think that that was probably my dad's influence, like get a degree, even though the degree- Yeah

16:08 Lee Kirk: was in acting, which is sort of, you know, it, it's kind of a useless degree. But, um, but so yeah, I... But I, I think I, I felt like this is what I, this is what I love, you know? I just felt a love for it.

16:21 Marc Preston: Did your folks kind of say, "Well, okay, cool. You're gonna do this thing," or were they like, "Well, you know, acting"?

16:27 Lee Kirk: No, they were into it. They, they, they were supportive. They were supportive. They, they, you know, they didn't discourage me. They, they would occasionally time, from time to time ask me, "Are you su- you know, how are you feeling about this? Are you feeling good about it," you know? And I would say, "This is... Yeah, I feel like this is what I wanna do."

16:43 The 3 AM panic and terrified career doubts of his early 30s

16:43 Lee Kirk: And, uh, there were some lean years though. I mean, when I got out of school and I moved to LA, it was, there was some lean years and probably all of those lean years is kind of what we're talking about with the films with, like, John Mechanical Man and that, that kind of melancholy. There was a lot of, there was a lot of time to, um, question and wonder if I was making a wrong choice, and realizing- I don't really know what else I wanna do.

17:06 Lee Kirk: I wanna make a career in, in, in, in, you know, entertainment. I, I, I wanna tell stories, you know? So I felt a little bit like, "This is, this is gonna have to be it. I just got to keep trying to figure out how to do this." And, uh, and I basically just followed my nose until it ended up that I'm, I'm a writer and director.

17:26 Lee Kirk: Yeah. But that was never the plan, really.

17:28 Marc Preston: Did you have a, quote-unquote, "fallback?" Did you have something that was like, "Well, if this doesn't pan out," or were you just all in on, on, uh, acting or directing?

17:36 Lee Kirk: I was all in. I mean, uh, writing/directing was my fallback, basically. I, I just... I, I-- The thought of trying to do something else, I would've...

17:45 Lee Kirk: I, I just knew I'd feel like I had an itch that I never scratched and that I should just... I, I should have... I, I w- I was worried I would regret not, not, not just continuing to try, so, so I just, I stuck in it. Um, but there was a lot, you know, there would be nights, I'm talking like early 30s, you know, it's like wake up in the middle of the night and be like, "Man, maybe I need to try something else 'cause-

18:10 Marc Preston: Yeah,

18:10 Lee Kirk: yeah

18:10 Lee Kirk: I'm, I'm not ma- You know, I was te- I was teaching acting. I did-- That's kinda how I made my money at that time. I was teaching acting, I was doing some commercials, and I was writing. I'd get a little paid for writing stuff, but I was still learning to write because I had, you know, I had changed careers, basically.

18:25 Lee Kirk: And, uh, and then eventually things started to gel and come together, um, luckily. But, but it took a while, you know, it took a while. And at that time you're just kind of betting on yourself, you know?

18:43 Marc Preston: When, when did you start directing, uh, episodic TV? When did, when did that happen for you?

18:47 Getting tapped to direct “The Office” after Ron Howard dropped out

18:47 Lee Kirk: So I made Giant Mechanical Man. Uh, and, uh, and what happened was, um, it came out, it, uh, it had a tiny moment, um, and, uh, the showrunner of The Office, um, Greg Daniels, happened to watch it And he said to my wife, Jenna, he said, uh, "Wow, um, I saw the...

19:09 Lee Kirk: uh, Lee's movie. I really enjoyed it, you know?" And, uh, and uh, he said, "We had, uh, an opening. We have an opening, um, of a directing slot." Um, um, of all people, Ron Howard was supposed to direct in a couple of weeks and he c- he had to drop out and he said, "Would Lee like to, Lee like to direct?" You know.

19:30 Marc Preston: Oh, really?

19:31 Marc Preston: Okay. And I

19:31 Lee Kirk: was

19:31 Marc Preston: like- So that's how... Okay. Yeah. So Giant Mechanical Man preceded you directing on T- Okay, I gotcha. That's correct. Yeah. So, so did, did you meet Jenna when you were doing Giant Mechanical Man? Was that... Did y'all just kind of first connect professionally, or were y'all already together before you did that film?

19:47 Falling in love with his wife, Jenna Fischer, on a movie set

19:47 Lee Kirk: We had known each other sort of peripherally, um, but it was on that film, it was kind of on the making of that film that we, that we got together. Okay. That we sort of, that we fell in love. Yeah. Um, so that, that film had a lot going, a lo- a lot going into it, you know? Um, but, uh... So, so yeah. And so we... Uh, it's funny how long it takes to, to make a film.

20:09 Lee Kirk: I mean- Yeah ... we, we started working on that movie and, uh, in the meantime between, uh, we shooting it and, and, and it coming out- Okay ... we got married. So so all- Really? Okay ... all that, there's a lot, there was a lot balled up in that, that film f- for her and I.

20:25 Marc Preston: Now, I don't know the timeline, but was The Office already kind of fully in its stride by the time that, uh, Giant Mechanical Man came out?

20:33 Marc Preston: W- Or was it still, was it just- Yeah ... kind of starting then?

20:35 Lee Kirk: Yeah. No, no. The O- uh, The Office was a, was a hit, hit show at that point. So, and I directed season nine, so

20:42 Marc Preston: and that was the last season. Oh, okay. So. Oh, okay. Okay.

20:44 Lee Kirk: Yeah.

20:44 Marc Preston: So w- when... I'm trying to think when The Office was. When, when, what years?

20:48 Lee Kirk: It was probably 2005 through '12, or '04 through '12, something like that, or '13.

20:57 Lee Kirk: You know, somewhere in there. I can't remember exactly, exactly. I think it ended in 2013 maybe, something like that.

21:03 Marc Preston: So how

21:03 Lee Kirk: many episodes- It's so funny because it's had such a resurgence, you know, since.

21:06 Marc Preston: Yeah. It had like... My, my, even my daugh- my oldest daughter, who's now 23, she, she found it. She's like, "Daddy, have you ever watched The Office?"

21:13 Marc Preston: I'm like, "Yeah, yeah." And it's like, uh, she found it I think on Netflix or whatever streamer was carrying it at the time. Uh, but that- Sure ... how many episodes did you direct o- of The Office?

21:23 Lee Kirk: Just one.

21:23 Marc Preston: Just, oh, just- Just one episode. Oh, just one? Okay.

21:25 Lee Kirk: Yeah.

21:26 Marc Preston: Now did- Just one ... did you do any other TV subsequent to that, or was that kind of just sort of your m- just your only

21:32 Lee Kirk: film?

21:32 Lee Kirk: That was just one. I just did that one.

21:33 Marc Preston: Oh.

21:33 Lee Kirk: Yeah, just, uh, I just did that one and, and, uh, you know, I've, I've a- uh, I've always kind of... It, it's been about w- writing and directing films. So, so I just did the one. I didn't really pursue more. Um, uh, so it was just, yeah, just the one. It, I did some music videos and, and, uh, you know, things like that, but- But, uh, just the, just the one episode of The Office

21:55 Marc Preston: TV's more of a, like, a writer's medium more than that, than film being more of a director's medium, you know?

22:00 Marc Preston: So that's ki- so- For sure So what's it like when you ste- 'Cause I'm curious because a show like The Office has been around for a while. You know, like Jenna and, you know, everyone else, they know the character. They know the DNA, you know? That, so, you know- Absolutely ... so as opposed to just, like, film where that's, it's, it's a different animal.

22:18 Marc Preston: So did you find any kind of- Absolutely ... a preference, or did you, like, "Yeah, TV's fun, but film's my jam"? Kind of speak to the difference between the two as far as the director's perspective and kind of your experiences.

22:29 Lee Kirk: Sure, yeah. Well, d- director, you know, uh, it, it, you're absolutely right. On, on television the writer is sort of the top of the pyramid.

22:36 Lee Kirk: The writers are, are, are really the ones who are the constant. They're there every day on the show. They've been writing it. They've been creating it. They understand who everybody is, and the actors all know that as well. So the director kind of comes in and gives a little bit of a, a, a point of view for the episode.

22:52 Lee Kirk: Um, but you know, when I, when I directed season nine, I mean, there was nothing to tell, you know, the, these guys. It was like turn the, turn the ignition and just drive it, you know? Yeah. I mean, it wasn't, uh... It was very, it, it was a blast, but the, the task of directing was more, um, thinking about where you wanted to put the camera, you know, maybe pacing things out a little bit, um, thinking about transitions.

23:18 Lee Kirk: But I wasn't directing the actors 'cause they, they, they knew what they were doing and, and they, and they did it far better than I would have ever recommended anything. So, you know, that's just not really part of the, uh, of the, of the job at that point, you know? Um, you know, when you, when you, in film w- the director, w- whether or not they've written a script, is, uh, has kind of the final say on things.

23:40 Lee Kirk: And so often what happens is a, a director, if they're write, directing someone else's script, they may rewrite the script. You know, they, they may make changes to it. Or, you know, or they, you know, they may have the writer on set with them. Oftentimes they don't because they kind of want to b- be sure that they have their own vision.

23:57 Lee Kirk: I've only written and directed my own films, so I can only speak to myself really in terms of, you know, I like to write, um scripts and, and get my actors in there. And then I like to encourage them in rehearsal to kind of make it their own, uh, change things if it doesn't feel right. You know, let, let's, let's make it feel, uh, good and authentic for, for yourself.

24:19 Marc Preston: Um- Now, how are you on rehearsal? Is that something you're really big- Are you big into a lot of rehearsal, or do you just kinda work it out a couple times and then go? How do you... What is your style, as it were?

24:28 Lee Kirk: You know, uh, well, if I have the luxury, you know, it's, it's expensive. You gotta pay for rehearsal.

24:33 Lee Kirk: So, so, um, uh, on this latest film I did have the luxury. I had about a week of rehearsal with my three, um, young actors, and it was, uh, it was an incredible, uh, time for us because it, it gave them the chance to not only do what I was just saying about go through the script and ask questions and, but also gave them the chance just to get to know each other and, and gel.

24:53 Lee Kirk: And, you know, because it was so important in this film that we felt a chemistry between these three kids, and you felt like this is a, this is a band. These are f- kids have known each other a long time. And, and so, uh- That was really important. But on my, my first two films, I didn't get a lot of rehearsal time just because the, the budgets were low, and we didn't have the extra time to do it.

25:13 Lee Kirk: Um, so it would literally be, um, uh, you know, maybe the night before, gathering a couple actors together, talking through stuff, um, you know, making sure everyone's okay with, with, you know, the scene. I mean, what I, what I like to avoid is getting on set, you line up the shot, you're ready to go, and then there's questions about like, about things- Yeah

25:33 Lee Kirk: because it- that just slows stuff down. So hopefully those questions are answered by the time you're rolling the camera, you know? And, and so that's always the goal for me.

25:42 Marc Preston: When you write it and direct it, you got a lot of... You've put on your sh- your own shoulders there. Is that easier for you because you sort of, you're navigating the whole thing?

25:50 Marc Preston: Or is it just... To me it'd be a little intimidating, 'cause you have your hands in all aspects really of the creation of a thing, you know?

25:58 Lee Kirk: Yeah.

25:58 Marc Preston: Is it a, is it- Yeah ... is that your preference? Or, uh, have you thought, you know, "Okay, for my next film I'm gonna do something where I just direct," you know? Or do you, do you like the writing and directing?

26:07 Lee Kirk: Sure. I like the writing and directing. I mean, it, it's, it's really fun to have that sort of control. A- and I like to be c- very collaborative, so, so I don't really see myself as this auteur who's like, you know, got this singular vision. I, I, I really like to everyone to have their input. So my cinematographer, my production designer, everyone, everyone kind of bring their skills and feel free and flexible to like, you know, try stuff and, and bring ideas.

26:31 Lee Kirk: I mean, to me it really is that, a collaboration. And so I don't feel that certain p- pressure as much. I mean, I f- I guess I feel like we're here, someone's paying for this movie, so they believed in the script, they believed in me, they believed in these actors. So, so I, I'm not gonna get worried about, you know, uh, stressed out about, uh, you know, being the decision maker.

26:52 Lee Kirk: But, um, but, uh, to answer the other question, I, I would love, you know, I, I ca- I'm at the point right now where, uh, with my next film I would love to, um, I, I am writing a couple films, but I'd also love to maybe have another film brought to me- Mm ... that I can take and make. Because what happens when you write the film, it's just a long ti- it's, it takes a, a long time to push the rock up the hill, you know?

27:17 Lee Kirk: And, um, and, uh It would be nice to, to get on one where the rock has already been pushed like halfway up, and I can come in and sort of start giving my ideas and direct it, rather than start from the bottom and- Yeah ... and, and, and push it. It just takes a long time to make a movie, you know?

27:33 Marc Preston: Yeah, I was about to say, you know, it's, it makes being an actor a lot easier, you know, 'cause you're there for a month to three months maybe, and but as the director, you're putting that thing on your shoulders and carrying it from, for almost at least a year, you know?

27:46 Marc Preston: Uh, and then- Oh, yeah. For sure ... and occasionally I like to fart around with, you know, open up Final Draft and Lord only knows if I'll ever sell a screenplay, but for me, I enjoy the writing. Now to me it's always been kind of fun. I guess some people j- like to journal or whatever, you know. For me, it's like it's, it's kind of cool.

28:01 Marc Preston: I haven't done it in a little while, but I'm curious, though, when you're writing something, do you, are you intentionally or unintentionally subconsciously casting it as you're writing it? Like, as you're developing a character, do you start thinking of someone who just is, would lock in on that character?

28:17 Lee Kirk: You know, you know, I, I, it's, it's inevitable that you start to kind of, for me at least, I start to see someone in the role and hear their voice, which only helps the writing, you know? I mean, oftentimes it doesn't end up being that person, but it helps to have a voice in your head- Mm ... in my head as I'm writing.

28:36 Lee Kirk: Um, uh, it, it just helps to, you know, to, to craft the dialogue and, and kind of get a sense of, of how, how the scene's gonna play out. Um, so yeah, you know, that happens. That happens most of the time. I think it probably happens as I write. Um, and then, uh, you know, occasionally I, I, I'm lucky enough to actually get the actor I had in my head, uh, to play the part.

28:59 Marc Preston: This is the first time, if I'm not mistaken, you've worked with, uh, young actors, right?

29:03 Lee Kirk: Uh, yeah, I did... On Ordinary World, I had a, I had a kid. I had like a eight-year-old kid- Yeah ... that, that was one of the... But, um, yes, on this film, this is the first time I've had like, you know, teenagers, working with teenagers.

29:14 Lee Kirk: Yeah.

29:15 Marc Preston: The Billy Joe Armstrong connection, I gotta know a little more about that, 'cause now he's been in two of your projects. So is there-

29:22 Lee Kirk: Mm-hmm ...

29:22 Marc Preston: was there an established relationship where y'all worked together once and it was like, "All right, well, this is fun. Let's do it again"? How'd that come together?

29:29 Working one-on-one with Billie Joe Armstrong to build his acting confidence

29:29 Lee Kirk: Yeah, I mean, you know, so when I cast him in Ordinary World, um, he, um, we, we spent almost about a year, nine months to a year, uh, working on the, working on it. Just like, he would fly down from Oakland or I would fly up there, and we'd just go through the script. And basically what we were doing was we were working on the role.

29:51 Lee Kirk: We were working on his acting. You know, he hadn't done a lot of acting, so we would just rehearse the scenes, and I would encourage him, like I said I'd do, I would encourage him, "Hey, man, make the dialogue your own. Make it feel good to yourself." And we'd just rehearse, and we'd just kind of talk about it so that it got really...

30:06 Lee Kirk: he got really comfortable with it. And I think within that- D- within doing that, you know, we developed a friendship, we developed a trust, you know? And, um, uh, we made the movie. Um, you know, he wrote original songs for the film and, and, and it was a, uh, we had a great time together. He, he later told me that that was one of his top I think he said top five experiences that he'd had- Really?

30:29 Lee Kirk: just making that movie, which meant so much to me. Yeah, it was really cool. And so, and, you know, and, and we... I got to know his family, he got to know my family. Um, and, uh, and so, you know, we became friends. And, um, and so I think that, I think what had happened is, you know, I had kind of become, um, in his mind, uh, in part of the Green Day family, I was the guy to, to, who would make, make a film, you know?

30:55 Lee Kirk: And so it was this, a simple thing. When he was ready to do it, he, he knew me, he trusted me. He also knew, I think he also knew that I understood who, what Green Day is. I've been to a lot of shows. I, I, not only did I know him and Mike and Tré, but I knew their families. I knew a lot of the, the extended people involved in Green Day.

31:11 Lee Kirk: So, so I think he under- I think he felt like I understood what Green Day is and what kind of a film we should make that represents Green Day, you know? That there was just a trust there. I'm

31:23 Marc Preston: trying to think. Was Green Day popping when we were in college? Like, I'm trying to think when they really- Yeah

31:28 Marc Preston: when they really hit. Let's see, I seen them-

31:30 Lee Kirk: Well, Dookie hit, Dookie hit in 1990, maybe one or two-

31:35 Marc Preston: Okay. Okay, yeah ...

31:36 Lee Kirk: is when that

31:36 Marc Preston: one came out. That's, okay.

31:37 Lee Kirk: And that, yeah, so we were in college, yeah.

31:38 Marc Preston: Right. You, like, you were ahead of me. You're, you were, uh, you're class of 1990, if I'm not mistaken, so God.

31:44 Lee Kirk: That's right.

31:44 Marc Preston: Going back, man. Yeah. I'm like-

31:46 Lee Kirk: Going back, man.

31:48 Marc Preston: Again, time is so weird, 'cause I can think, I can think back to, to back then and it's, like, very clear memories, but there's so much of a valley between then and now that it's like, "Wow, okay." "I've, I've seen some stuff, man." Yeah. Now, um, so-

32:03 Lee Kirk: Yeah, man.

32:04 Marc Preston: So, uh, going back real quick, uh, and working with the young actors, uh, now y- when you hit LA, you're already...

32:09 Marc Preston: You know, you weren't, you weren't a kid actor. You know, you're out of college. But working with young actors, and this is really kind of centered on them, you know, what was that like for you? Is it, was it a, was it a new muscle you had to develop?

32:21 Lee Kirk: It felt, it felt similar to what I, uh, you know, to working with any actor, you know?

32:26 Lee Kirk: Um, yeah, I, I think that working with actors, you, you get a sense of, of how they like to work. Um, and you can also get a sense of how they feel about the character and how they feel confidence-wise in their choices that they've made. And, and, um, and so, uh, w- each actor's different. So I, you know, the process is al- for me is always kind of understanding who they are and what they're about and, and what's their take on the role is, and then finding a way to just, uh, help them thrive.

32:55 Lee Kirk: And, and that, that doesn't really change, uh, in age really, for me. Um, and what was so great about these three, three kids that, you know, or young people, was that they were, um, they were so gung ho, you know? And I basically just told them, I said, "Listen." Most important, show up on the set and just know the lines backwards and forwards.

33:17 Lee Kirk: 'Cause if you know them backwards and forwards and we're not worried about remembering lines, we can really let this thing live. Yeah. And we can have fun, and you can ad lib, and we can play around and, and, and make it, make it work. And they did. They showed up totally prepared. And, um, and so, you know, I think...

33:32 Lee Kirk: And I think that their performances really have a spontaneity to them, um, because of that, because they all showed up ready to go. And, and so that, that... They're not thinking in their head, "What's my next line?" They're actually just in the scene listening.

33:46 Directing both of his kids on set alongside his wife, Jenna Fischer

33:46 Marc Preston: As a dad, is this, is one of the things just kind of even to kind of expand beyond that, is that something that you would encourage your kids to do this?

33:53 Marc Preston: Is there any inclination they've got to wanna do it? Or kind of where are you at on

33:57 Lee Kirk: that? Well, my daughter's in the movie. My daughter plays Cassidy, McKenna Grace's younger sister.

34:02 Marc Preston: Oh,

34:02 Lee Kirk: okay. So, um, yeah, so that was really fun to have her. She's done a, a lot of, like, um, uh, youth theater in LA. Uh, nothing professional.

34:13 Marc Preston: Mm-hmm.

34:14 Lee Kirk: Um, and, and I, and, and I thought, "Oh, it'd be fun to have her play this part," but she's never acted on camera. And, um, and so that was a real, that was really fun because she, she did such a good job. She was ready to go. She came a few days early and, and watched everyone. I think she got a sense of how it works and, and sort of the, the, the level of, of energy she needs to bring to the part And, uh, I was so proud of her.

34:38 Lee Kirk: O- o- on her first day, I told Mason and McKenna, I took them aside, she had the scene with th- with both of them, and I said, "Guys, okay, so when I say cut, I'm sure I'm gonna have some notes for Harper. Uh, I'm gonna... I- I- I'm... But I, I need... I don't wanna single her out, so I'm gonna give you guys notes too, just disregard them."

34:57 Lee Kirk: Um, but, but I'll give you both notes, and then I'll give her a note so that she doesn't feel singled out. And so okay, they're like, "Good," to the plan. So we go action, and then she was perfect. So we said... I said, "Cut." I was like, "Harper, you nailed it. Like, let's just do another one just like that," you know? And it was...

35:14 Lee Kirk: I was really, really impressed with her, with her. And so that was great fun doing it, yeah. Well, what a great, what a great

35:17 Marc Preston: feeling that's gotta be to be, be a dad and, you know, watching your kid in f- in the flow, you know? Just to-

35:23 Lee Kirk: Oh, yeah. So, so- Yeah, it was great, man ...

35:26 Marc Preston: so did Jenna come to the set at all and kind of watch her kid do her thing, or was she kind of...

35:30 Marc Preston: Were you kind of trying to, like, limit distractions for- No,

35:32 Lee Kirk: she was there.

35:33 Marc Preston: Oh.

35:33 Lee Kirk: No, no, she was there. She was there. She was watching, you know. I mean, she would have her days on set, too, where she was playing Jody, so- Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah ... so she would... Yeah, yeah. So she would be there acting, but then she would, uh, bring, you know, Harper up and watch, and she was, you know, standing at the monitor with me gushing with pride over, over Harper.

35:52 Lee Kirk: So it was cool. It was really cool. And then my son is a drummer, so he played the... He played drums in, in McKenna's band in the movie. He's... We recorded that live, and that's him, him playing the drums. So I got the whole family involved in the movie, which is, which is fun.

36:04 Marc Preston: So, you know, soon they're gonna eclipse you, and you're gonna be like...

36:07 Marc Preston: I was listening to Judd Apatow. He's like, you know, he would explain, you know, like talk about his daughters, and it's like, oh yeah, they're, they're... You know, everybody says, "Oh, your dad's Judd Apatow." J- And the people go to him, it's like, "Oh yeah, you're, you know, the kids' father," you know? It's like- Oh yeah,

36:19 Lee Kirk: you're Maude Apatow's dad.

36:21 Marc Preston: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like- Yeah, yeah ... it, it kind of, it kind of flips, you know. Um, but-

36:25 Lee Kirk: Absolutely ...

36:25 Marc Preston: are you encouraging this path for your, uh, for your daughter, or is this, or is this just kind of like letting her go, you know, as long as she wants to do it kind of a thing?

36:34 Lee Kirk: I mean, well, so- I, I, I think she has some talent, so I'm encouraging it, but we're not letting her be a professional k- a kid, professional kid actor, you know?

36:43 Lee Kirk: So she doesn't have an agent. She's not going on auditions. Uh, we tell her, you know, "There'll be a time when you, after you turn 18, that you can make this decision if you still wanna do it and, and, uh, you know, get it, get, get in it," but, but not as a kid. I, I, I don't, I, I don't, we, we don't feel like we want her to, to be taking on that responsibility as a kid.

37:01 Lee Kirk: So we'll see if sh- if she still wants to do it. I mean, she's got a lot of interests, so, so who knows if they'll, they'll remain, but if she wants to do it later, I'll be very encouraging of her, for sure.

37:12 Marc Preston: Real quick, going back, back in your high school days when you were younger, what was like... What were you up to in high school?

37:18 Marc Preston: I've for... Am, am I thinking right that you, were you, uh, besides theater, for my old- I played

37:23 Lee Kirk: soccer ...

37:23 Marc Preston: so- oh, you played s- Coach Mingiulli.

37:25 Lee Kirk: Coach Mingiulli, yeah. Coach Mingiulli, and, uh, um, all my, all my friends who I just saw a bunch of them for the World Cup. I went out to Dallas and saw a bunch of those guys from the team.

37:36 Lee Kirk: Um, I played soccer my, it was just my sophomore year, actually.

37:40 Marc Preston: Mm-hmm.

37:41 Lee Kirk: Did I play my, uh, maybe my junior year too. I can't remember. But, um, but, uh, so it was soccer, and then it was theater. So th- those are my two, my two high school, high school interests back then.

37:49 Marc Preston: Yeah, I've quoted, I've quoted Coach Mingiulli- Yes

37:52 Marc Preston: indirectly here on this show before. I, I remember he said- Have you?

37:54 Lee Kirk: Yeah.

37:55 Marc Preston: One, he, one thing he says, "Hug a nerd," because ner- he said, "Nerds are gonna run..." This is 1991, right? So he said, "Nerds are gonna run the world," you know. Boy, was he right. Um, and then he s- I love that ... he said, "Everybody should own their own business."

38:07 Marc Preston: Amazing. That guy was an inf- an inf- an infectious, uh, amount of energy, you know? Um,

38:11 Lee Kirk: but- Yeah. Well, I mean, his son, his son Alessandro, I, I just saw him. He o- he owns his own business. He is thriving. He's doing wonderful in Dallas. So he took his dad's advice to heart.

38:21 Marc Preston: Yeah. Well, yeah, your... Now I'm trying to remember, your brother, uh, was, is it Cham, right?

38:25 Marc Preston: It, didn't, didn't he run a Campisi's, if I'm not mistaken?

38:30 Lee Kirk: He d- he did. Okay.

38:31 Marc Preston: Yeah,

38:32 Lee Kirk: Campbell and Coit, the Campisi's there.

38:33 Marc Preston: How do I re- how do I remember this shit? Yeah. I, I have no idea how this comes to mind. Yeah. Well, Campisi's is a station on the cross. Whenever I take the kids back to Dallas, I'm like, "Okay, we always gotta go to Camp..."

38:41 Marc Preston: We go to the one on Mockingbird, though, you know. But, uh- Me too. Yeah ... so, so what- Oh,

38:45 Lee Kirk: yeah ...

38:45 Marc Preston: so what are your brothers up to? 'Cause I know, I know Robin's up in Chicago, but what are your brothers, what'd they end up doing?

38:51 Lee Kirk: Mm-hmm. So Cham is still in Dallas. He actually, um, he's, he's still in the restaurant business and, uh, uh- food and beverage business.

38:59 Lee Kirk: Um, and, um, and then my younger brother Tyler lives in Chicago as well, and he's in the advertising business. He's a copywriter. So they're all, they're all doing great, and they're all, uh, you know, thriving.

39:11 Marc Preston: With Robin being in LA, so it's like, okay, two of the Kirk kids ended up in LA. Did she end up there because you were already there?

39:17 Marc Preston: I, I don't, you know, I, I never really asked her, but, uh, was that-

39:21 Lee Kirk: Uh, she, I, I think she just wanted to move out here. Yeah, I think she just wanted to come out and, and, and see what it was like, see, have a change of scenery, you know? But then she moved to Chicago, and now I think everything is kind of gelled for her and, and her husband, Mark, Mark Branton- Yeah, yeah

39:35 Lee Kirk: who was also, you know, in, in, in your, your grade. So, uh, and they're doing great, man. They're, they're, they're loving Chicago. It's a great city. Well, I see- Tyler's there ...

39:44 Marc Preston: well, the Kirk kids kind of sandwich, y'all sandwich. So you were a year ahead of me, and she was a year behind me, I remember. But, uh, but that was like- Oh,

39:50 Lee Kirk: that's right.

39:51 Lee Kirk: Yeah, yeah. She was a year behind you. That's right.

39:52 Marc Preston: Yeah, I was a class of '91. And this is like a little memory lane. I'm, somebody's listening going, "Okay." Whoever's listening- ... they're learning all about JJ Pearce High School. Um-

40:00 Lee Kirk: They are, yes.

40:09 The Seven Questions

40:09 Marc Preston: Kind of on the back end of, uh, chats, I, I have something I call my seven questions. The, the, the first question I always ask is, what is your favorite comfort food? You know, if you're having a killer day, it, it's, it-

40:22 Lee Kirk: Mm ...

40:23 Marc Preston: it, it just adds to it, or if it's a rough day, it kind of elevates you. What would that be for you?

40:28 Lee Kirk: It's... I gotta go with ice cream. Cookies 'n' Cream ice cream, man. That's, uh- Really? That, that, I can't- Really? Okay ... I can't deny. Yeah, I love, I love a good bowl of ice cream, man. If it's in the freezer, I'm eating it, so, like, we can't have it all the time.

40:41 Marc Preston: I'll go into the grocery here, and I'm like, "Okay, Blue Bell."

40:43 Marc Preston: You know, it's, it's done, you know?

40:46 Lee Kirk: Yeah, yeah,

40:46 Marc Preston: yeah. Going, going basic. Um- Yeah ... now, next question I got for you, uh, i- if you're gonna sit down, you're gonna be talking story for a few hours. You're gonna sit down, have coffee, spend an afternoon, you and three people, living or not, who would you like to be- Hmm

41:01 Marc Preston: sitting at that table with you to talk story for a few hours over coffee?

41:04 Lee Kirk: Oh, wow. Okay. So, um, I would pick three people who are m- much more knowledgeable than me, and I would just let them, I would let them speak, I would listen. So, uh, Paul Thomas Anderson, let's put him at the table. Um, Martin McDonagh Love his plays, love his work.

41:26 Lee Kirk: Let's h- put him there, and then let's just go, let's go back in time and let's get, um... I just would love to talk to Samuel Beckett. So let's put Beckett at the table, too.

41:35 Marc Preston: I was curious, what were you watching back in high school? Back when maybe you went to the Blockbuster Video up on, what was it, like West Shore and Arapahoe.

41:43 Marc Preston: I don't know if that was the video store- Mm-hmm ... you went. That's the one I went to. Uh, what were you renting? What was the thing that you were... What films were you watching that were like, "This is my jam. This is my thing."

41:53 Lee Kirk: I mean, I was watching all the movies that w- that I feel like were, um, aimed at us- Mm-hmm

41:59 Lee Kirk: as teenagers in those days, you know. Which it's funny because I was thinking about a lot of those movies when I made, when I made Nimrods. I was try- kind of, kind of, you know, f- I was channeling them in, in, in the, in trying to kind of have a nostalgic movie that felt kind of like those films. So I'm talking about movies like, um, Risky Business and Footloose and, um, uh, The Goonies and, um, you know, uh, Vacation.

42:25 Lee Kirk: Yeah Stuff like that. The, those are the films. I mean, I, you know, back in those days, like I said, I wasn't really thinking about being a director, so I was just watching movies for the popcorn, you know, for fun. And I wasn't studying them. I was just like, uh, enjoying, you know, enjoying them and, and s- seeing a piece of m- of maybe a piece of my life in them and, and so feeling connected to them.

42:49 Lee Kirk: Um, so yeah, you know, and Spielberg films, they d- they did, they did all that for me as well, you know? So- Well,

42:55 Marc Preston: we did grow up that era where that was kind of the first time that movies were being made, uh, you know, Gen X had that thing where the movies were being made, targeted towards, you know, our generation.

43:05 Marc Preston: You know, up to- Yeah ... up to about I guess- Yeah ... like late '70s or so, you really didn't have a lot of teen movies, you know? And then it, uh, food, advertising, everything was just getting, just being aimed right at us, you know? Um-

43:18 Lee Kirk: Yeah. No, it's very true. I mean, it's, it's a special time that, you know, that what, the, what was making the Hollywood money was teen, teen kind of movies.

43:28 Lee Kirk: That, that, that was the thing. A- and, uh, about just teenagers, not, not teenagers who's a superhero. You know? Yeah, yeah. Just teenagers. There it is. John Hu- And, uh, John Hughes ...

43:37 Marc Preston: John Hughes was kind of like the, you know, the guy who- John Hughes.

43:40 Lee Kirk: Exactly.

43:41 Marc Preston: Um, now, going back in time, the next question I got for you is who was your very first celebrity crush when you were a kid?

43:48 Lee Kirk: Probably Elizabeth Shue. Probably. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Adventures In Babysitting.

43:52 Marc Preston: Yeah, I... Yeah. Yeah ... it's so funny. In that, in that vein I saw, uh, something popped up in one of my social media feeds of, uh, Phoebe Cates. I'm like, "Oh yeah, that's right. I did have a thing for her."

44:01 Lee Kirk: Oh, yeah.

44:02 Marc Preston: You know? And, uh, that's- Yeah,

44:03 Lee Kirk: me too.

44:03 Lee Kirk: For sure.

44:05 Marc Preston: Elizabeth Shue. You can't, you can't not love Elizabeth Shue.

44:08 Lee Kirk: Yeah.

44:08 Marc Preston: The next question I got for you is if you were to be f- forced to live on an exotic, awesome island for a year, you know, somewhere you wanna be. It's comfortable, you got nice place to stay, but no streaming. So if you wanna listen to music you're allowed one CD, and if you wanna watch a movie over and over again, you're allowed one DVD.

44:25 Marc Preston: What would that CD be? Hmm. What would the DVD be for you? For that

44:31 Lee Kirk: whole year. That's a good question. Okay, for one year I get one CD. I'm probably listening to, um, something by maybe The Strokes Maybe Green Day, uh, something like that. Um, I'll say The Strokes. I'll say, I'll say their first record, Is This It?

44:52 Lee Kirk: Uh, I, I'd bring that. I love that record. Um, and let's see, DVD. Um, it would have to be, um, a movie that I am in so in love with right now, um, The Banshees of Inisherin. I was talk- Oh ... I was mentioning Mar- Martin McDonagh, and I just love that movie. And, uh- I still haven't seen

45:13 Marc Preston: it. That is on my list. Yeah, I still haven't seen it yet.

45:15 Lee Kirk: Oh, you gotta see it, man. It's such a, such a good movie. So I'd put that. That, that, that's how I'd get through that year.

45:21 Marc Preston: Very good. Now, the next question I've got for you, now, if you're, if you were to say from stem to stern, from the time you get up in the morning, time you go to bed, what would be the ingredients, the component parts for you of a day that you could say, "That was a perfect day for me"?

45:34 Marc Preston: What things would have happened- Hmm ... throughout that day for you?

45:37 Lee Kirk: Well, I would, I always start the day writing. So I always get the coffee going and, uh, and, and, and write. So let's just say the coffee tastes perfect, and, uh, and then it's a very fruitful writing session. So let's go with that first of all.

45:52 Lee Kirk: Um, I play hockey. Um, uh, that's g- one of my main methods of exercise is playing ice hockey, so- Oh, really? Okay ... I would have a great, great hockey game. Uh, and, uh, it's just, like, a pickup game with a bunch of friends. Uh, and then, um, you know, my kids, um, ha- thrive at school, and they come home with, uh, you know, e- excited, thriving.

46:16 Lee Kirk: And, and then at the end of the day, um, m- my wife and I have a, an amazing time. We go out to dinner and see a great play. I, at the end of the day, that's, that's a pretty good day. I'll, I'll take that day any, anytime.

46:29 Marc Preston: Very good. Very good. Now, uh, next question. I- if somebody said to you, you know, "Okay, Lee, no acting, no directing.

46:35 Marc Preston: That's just not on the table for you anymore. You can't do it," what's gonna be the next vocation in line? Something you think you could derive joy from doing.

46:44 Lee Kirk: Hmm. That's a great question, and I don't know if I have a good answer for it. Um, probably, um- I don't know. I, I, I love traveling, so I'd have to figure out a way to make a, make a living tra- I'd have to be a travel vlogger, blogger guy or something because I love to travel so much and, and, uh, if there's a way to, to make a living doing that, then I would, uh, I'd, I'll choose that.

47:09 Marc Preston: Very good. Very good. Now, the last question I got for you is if you could jump in that DeLorean and you could travel back to, uh, well, back in your Pierce days when you're 16 years old, and you got about a few minutes with yourself to offer a piece of advice- Mm-hmm ... to either make that moment of your life somehow a little bit better or maybe put you on a little different trajectory, you know, what, what would your advice to 16-year-old you be if you had a few minutes with you?

47:33 Lee Kirk: Oh, I would, I would tell myself, "Don't be afraid to fail. Don't be afraid to look stupid. Take chances. Put... You know, don't edit yourself. Be, just be yourself. Um, and, you know, don't stand in your own way 'cause it, 'cause it's... You don't need to. You know? It's, it's, uh, uh... There's enough, there's enough obstacles already, so you don't need to have any fear, so don't, don't be afraid."

47:58 Marc Preston: Yeah. And that's hard to do when you're, you're, you're younger and you, you know, you don't have any sense of what's coming next and, you know. Especially going- Absolutely ... going to Pierce, which was, I think for the time we went there, was a wonderful school to go to. I mean, you can get ... I mean, it was educationally- Yeah

48:12 Marc Preston: it was spot on. But, but everybody was coming out, like you had high, high percentage of people going to college. It was professional. Get a business card that looks good. Oh, for sure. And then here you are choosing this creative path, which is much more or, or mu- much less certain, you know? Mm-hmm. So-

48:28 Lee Kirk: Yeah. I think that's why I'd give myself that advice.

48:32 Marc Preston: Well, I- Yeah ... you know, I'm trying to remember going back. I think the only other person I know of that was part of the JJ Pierce creative crew that went off and, and I think Hank Melkin wrote, uh, uh, uh, Saving Silverman, I think and, and-

48:46 Lee Kirk: Saving Silverman. That's right.

48:48 Marc Preston: Yeah. But is there, is there anybody else that kind of went through school, you know, around our, our time that, that went into the, uh, went into the arts, went into, you know, film?

48:58 Marc Preston: I, 'cause I don't ... I can't think of anybody, but there were a lot of talented folks there, but I didn't know if they chose it as a vocation.

49:04 Lee Kirk: There, yeah. There, um, well, my f- my friend Josh Adelle, he was in the theater program with me, and he lives out here, and he's a, he, he's not in film, but he's, he's, uh, a, a, a teacher, a theater teacher at a nearby high school and thriving, doing so well.

49:21 Lee Kirk: He's been there for like 20 years or something, and I see him from time to time. Really? So it's fun to get together and, and catch up on the old days and stuff like that, you know. But, um, there's probably someone. I, I, I ... There, you know, probably some people are doing stuff. May- maybe, I'm not sure. I'm not sure exactly

49:37 Marc Preston: who,

49:37 Lee Kirk: but-

49:37 Marc Preston: I,

49:37 Lee Kirk: I can't

49:37 Marc Preston: think of her name, but there's somebody who was in my class that's a, uh, talent manager in LA at a pretty high level.

49:43 Marc Preston: I can't think of- Oh.

49:43 Lee Kirk: Oh, well Cor- Courtney Kiewit- Uh, Kiewit. Yeah ... was in my grade, is out here, and she's ... Oh, yeah. She's a, she's a manager and she's doing, she's doing amazing. I see her as, uh, some time to time as well. Oh, v- Yeah. She's doing great.

49:54 Marc Preston: Well, I, well, what's coming up next for you, man? I know, uh ... And by the way, I gotta say Nimrods, I mean, even if I wasn't talking to you, it's, it's a film I'm looking forward to.

50:01 Marc Preston: I am epic jazzed to see it, but I wanna know what else you got. If there's anything in the pipeline that you're starting to work on now or if you're just trying to get through the, uh, uh, release of Nimrods and then consider what you got going on.

50:11 Lee Kirk: Sure. No, Marc, I, um, I'm writing. I'm, you know, I have a couple films I'm writing.

50:15 Lee Kirk: I have a play I'm writing and, and, uh, those are kind of in the, in the stages. So- Um, hoping to have, um, hoping to get one of those off the ground in the next, you know, s- uh, little bit. But, um, like I said, also reading scripts that are being sent to me and, and, and looking for something maybe outside of my head that I can, that I can latch onto and direct.

50:36 Lee Kirk: So we'll see. We'll see what the future holds.

50:39 Marc Preston: O- and of course,

50:40 Lee Kirk: uh- I'm gonna tell myself that same advice, though. Don't wor- don't, don't be afraid. You know? Don't worry.

50:45 Marc Preston: Give a little shout-out to y- your lovely bride. What's, what's Jenna got working right n- besides, of course, being in Nimrods. Does she have anything coming out here soon?

50:53 Marc Preston: Yeah.

50:53 Lee Kirk: She, she's doing... She has a couple things. You know, she got a podcast that's really popular called Office Ladies that, uh- Ah ... her, her and Angela Kinsey do together, and that's, that, uh, that's, that's her, her joy right now. She's doing that, um And, uh, a couple things bubbling, but, um, not- nothing, nothing to sort of, nothing concrete right now that I can say she's definitely gonna be doing this, this project next.

51:16 Lee Kirk: But there's a couple things bubbling out there.

51:18 Marc Preston: Well, the last question I got, I was curious, uh, as your kids were coming up, I mean, like, you know, Mom's Jenna Fischer. We'd see her on TV. We know what she does. Did they understand- Yeah ... what you did, though? Because they don't see you. Did they understand, like, what Dad was doing when he kinda goes off to work?

51:33 Lee Kirk: They understood a lot better when I ma- when I, when, when- ... you know, when things started picking up with this film. I think for a long time they're like, "Dad just, you know, uh, wears sweatpants all day and goes in his office, so what the hell is he doing in there?" You know, but, um, because, you know, so it's hard when you're writing scripts.

51:50 Lee Kirk: You're just, there- there's no there's nothing to show them. It's, you know. So, um, it was cool to have them involved in this movie and, and to kind of really see what it, what it, what goes into making a film. Yeah. It's to have that epiphany- They got to see me do it ... of

52:03 Marc Preston: like, oh, this, this is what he does. Okay, that's cool.

52:06 Marc Preston: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's- Yeah. Exactly ... it's so, it's so nice when your kids kinda get to see you. Like, uh, oh, they see how the sausage is made, and they understand. It's like, oh, this is... All right, cool. Yeah. Uh, a- and- Yeah, it

52:16 Lee Kirk: was cool. And last year I had, I had a play that went up at the Goodman Theatre in Chicago, and, and that was a real fun thing.

52:22 Lee Kirk: And so they got to see that. They got to see what it, it, what goes into doing a play. And then they got to see the film. So that's been, it's been a good couple years where they got to kinda get a sense of all this stuff.

52:33 Marc Preston: Well, that's awesome, man. Well, I, I'm, I am so happy for you and your success and all the good stuff you got going on, man.

52:39 Marc Preston: I, I, I'm really looking forward to, to seeing Nimrods. Actually, the one last question, I always talk food on the show. I have to ask this one que- When you go back to Dallas, where's the one restaurant you absolutely have to hit when you go back home?

52:51 Lee Kirk: Well, it's like you said, Campese's. I, I, I gotta ha- I gotta go get the Works pizza.

52:55 Marc Preston: I'm more, I like the salami pizza and the crab legs. I gotta do the cra- I like the whole big old pile of it. Oh,

53:00 Lee Kirk: yeah. Yeah. Oh, heck yeah, man. Heck yeah. For

53:03 Marc Preston: sure. And I'm doing this before lunch, so I'm, I'm hungry. You know, so, uh. Me too. Well, my, well, my friend, I appreciate you greatly. Thanks for sharing some time with me.

53:11 Marc Preston: Uh, you know, if you talk to Robin before I do, tell her I said howdy. Uh, I, I occasionally catch up with her, but, uh, but it's great, man. Looking forward to Nimrods, and, uh, nothing but, uh, best of luck to you, my friend.

53:21 Lee Kirk: Thanks, Marc. Great talking to you, man. Appreciate it.

53:26 Marc Preston: All right, there you go. Lee Kirk, a writer, director, talented guy, former classmate, cool dude.

53:33 Marc Preston: The new movie is called Nimrods. It is in theaters now. McKenna Grace, Mason Thames, of course Jenna Fischer is in it. Uh, it was so much fun. I, I, again, I don't know if I'm ever gonna be able to do this again. I don't think I'll be able to have anyone else that, uh, I went to high school with, uh, junior high even, to, uh, sit down and talk some industry talk and life and memory lane and all that kind of good stuff.

53:55 Marc Preston: So, uh, get out there. Check out Nimrods. Also, check out Giant Mechanical Man. Uh, the other project also he worked on with, uh, Billie Joe Armstrong called Ordinary World. Uh, it is a, uh, great sampling of the stuff that Lee does. He's got a unique voice. Uh, it is right up my alley, and, uh, we always talk about how much I enjoy independent, great independent film.

54:15 Marc Preston: And, uh, Lee is, uh, one of those guys who we're gonna be hearing more about. And the film is in theaters right now. So run out there, check out Nimrods, uh, check out some Green Day. You know it's gonna be a good time. Okay. Uh, hey, do me a favor. Jump on your podcast app. Well, don't jump on it. Reach for it, grab it, tap the follow button, that way you get notified when a new episode comes out.

54:35 Marc Preston: Also, leave some stars. A review helps others to find the show. And also, if you wanna find out about the show, just head over to storyandcraftpod.com. Everything is right there. Uh, past guest, past episodes, check it out. I'm gonna head on out of here. Uh, it is dinner time for me, so it's time to eat. I'm gonna head out.

54:54 Marc Preston: You have yourself a wonderful rest of your day. Uh, we'll be back in a couple days, another great episode, and, uh, I wanted to thank you, as I always do, for making what I got going on part of what you've got going on. It means a lot to me. Have a great one. We'll talk soon right here on Story and Craft.

55:10 Announcer: That's it for this episode of Story and Craft. Join Marc next week for more conversation right here on Story and Craft. Story and Craft is a presentation of Marc Preston Productions, LLC. Executive producer is Marc Preston. Associate producer is Zachary Holden. Please rate and review Story and Craft on Apple Podcasts.

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