Showrunner Stuart Zicherman from "The Americans" and FX's "American Sports Story" joins us on Story & Craft.
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Showrunner Stuart Zicherman from “The Americans” and FX’s “American Sports Story” joins us on Story & Craft.
Stuart is a showrunner, executive producer, writer and director whose work includes “The Shrink Next Door” and “The Americans.” We talk about “American Sports Story,” his series about football player Aaron Hernandez, now on Hulu, and the challenges of telling true stories. He also shares his storytelling influences and favorite movies.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
Stuart Zicherman joins Story & Craft
Stuart’s Early Career and Breakthrough
Transition to TV and Working with JJ Abrams
The Writing Process and Screenwriting Insights
Personal Projects and Inspirations
Personal Stories and Casting Choices
Transition to American Sports Story
Exploring the Aaron Hernandez Case
Challenges of Portraying Real People
Casting and Character Interpretation
Future Projects and Interests
Personal Reflections and Preferences
The Seven Questions
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Full Transcript
Part 1
Stuart Zicherman:00:00:00
Watching Stand By Me, I mean, it is a perfect movie.
2
Stuart Zicherman joins Story & Craft
,470 --> 00:00:06,690
And like, it gets to the end
and I just, in tears in my eyes,
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like, I couldn't believe it.
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I looked over at my son, he
was like, yeah, that's good.
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I'm like, no, dude, that was great.
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You know?
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Announcer: Welcome to Story Craft.
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Now, here's your host, Marc Preston.
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Marc Preston: All right, here we
go, another episode of Story Craft.
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Welcome.
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How are you?
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I'm Marc Preston.
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If this is your very first stop by
the show, I want to welcome you.
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Thank you very much for
just checking it out.
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Today, sitting down with Stuart Zicherman.
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Now, Stuart's an executive producer.
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He is a showrunner, writer, director.
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He's done a lot of work.
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Projects over the years, you
may know of like Electra also
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did some writing on the show.
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The shrink next door with
Paul Rudd and Will Ferrell.
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He also did the Americans
on the FX network.
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The new project he's got out is
called American Sports Story about
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the football player Aaron Hernandez.
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It is currently on Hulu.
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Very talented guy when it comes
to just the Sheer breadth of work.
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He's done.
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Uh, like I said, he's producing, writing,
directing, very talented for sure.
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Now, if you would do me a favor, I
always ask this humble, this humble
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request is to pop on over to story
and craft pod forward slash rate.
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Do we say forward slash or just slash?
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Let me just do slash.
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Let's see how that sounds.
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Storyandcraftpod.
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com slash rate.
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Okay.
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That feels good.
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We'll, we'll do that.
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What you do there is just kind of
hop on over to your favorite podcast
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app and rate the episode, rate
the show, uh, followed the show.
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If you would, that way you get notified
every time we have a new episode and
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also leave a review, if you would drop a
little note, if you enjoyed the episode.
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Just pop a note in there.
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It says, Hey, cool stuff, little
emoji or whatever you want to
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do, whatever feels right for you.
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It's a little bit of love.
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I appreciate and gives a folks an
opportunity to discover story and craft.
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Also, the website, as I
mentioned, story and craft.
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Pod that's where you can find out
everything about the show who's been on
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past guests, of course Past episodes and
uh, you can also send me a note You can
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drop me a line if you would like leave a
voicemail you can do that also and just
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You know, it's a way for us to connect.
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All right, uh, let's go
and jump right into it.
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Today is Stuart Zicherman day
right here on Story and Craft.
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Where are you joining me from today?
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Stuart Zicherman: Uh, I'm in New York.
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I'm in Rye, New York.
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Marc Preston: Rye, New York.
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Where is that?
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It's just outside the city.
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I, uh, Jewish kid from Dallas and We
had a couple of good delis there, uh,
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but now I'm living on an island in South
Texas and, uh, not a deli for, uh, I
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don't, I think I'd have to drive to
Austin to find a decent deli, you know?
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So it's kind of a, my heart breaks
a little bit, so I'm very envious
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that you got easy access to
Katz's and all that kind of jazz.
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So, um, I'm glad we had
a chance to connect.
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I was taking a look and just kind of
cursory, you know, preparing, noticed,
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uh, the diversity of stuff you've done
is, there doesn't seem to be a kind of a
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common thread between the type of genre.
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So you're not really kind of locked
into doing documentary or whatever.
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Action type stuff.
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Stuart's Early Career and Breakthrough
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So what was like kind of
the beginning for you?
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Were you originally a writer or were
you originally a screenplay writer?
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And what was kind of the Genesis, uh, to
kind of gotcha where you are right now?
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Stuart Zicherman: Well, yeah, I
mean, um, I've always wanted to
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be a writer, you know, at the
beginning of your career, you're just
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trying to find a way in, you know?
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Um, and I, you know,
I was, uh, it's funny.
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I was, I got into film school at USC grad
school and, um, you know, I You know,
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it started to sort of get some writing
under my belt, you know, for school.
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But, um, uh, but when I graduated from
film school, I, I had no money and
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I, I really needed to figure out a
way to go, you know, make some money.
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So I, I got a job as a PA
on a movie in New York.
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Um, uh, I said originally I actually got
a job cause I knew how to work a video
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camera to work the video camera for the
casting department, but it was this big,
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big casting director named John Lyons.
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who um, had done a bunch
of the cone brother movies.
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And I was just so excited to be in
any room getting paid to do anything.
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You know, he was casting a new movie
called city hall and it was, uh, Al
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Pacino, John Cusack, Bridget Fonda
movie directed by Harold Becker.
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And so I'm in these casting sessions and,
and Harold Becker is like sitting there,
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you know, he's, he's just sitting there.
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When the casting was over, he's
like, you seem like a smart guy.
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You know, you should, uh, you should
be my assistant for the movie.
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So I ended up being his
assistant on this gigantic, like.
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You know, a hundred day
movie shoot in New York.
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And, um, the best part of being,
you know, being on a film set like
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that is all the people you meet.
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Um, you know, I didn't even know what all
people did in all the departments, you
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know, and you just, you just get to know
people and it turned out that, um, you
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know, on the set of this movie over, over
months and months, I got to know this guy.
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He was one of the, one of the
ADs and he had written a movie.
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And he's like, Oh, you
went to film school.
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Would you read my movie?
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And I was like, sure.
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And it was an action movie, you know, and
I was like, I gave him the disclaimer.
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I'm, I went to film school.
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I'm not looking to write.
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You know, actually, but I'll give
you notes, you know, um, I was
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so arrogant, you know, and I,
um, anyway, so I read his script.
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He'd written it with this other guy.
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You got
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Marc Preston: that arrogance of
only a freshly minted, uh, film
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school student can have, yeah,
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Stuart Zicherman: like bonehead, you know?
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And, um, but it turned out I gave
these guys notes and they really
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liked my notes and they said,
would you want to rewrite it?
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You know, uh, with us and if we
sell it and I'm like, yeah, sure.
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You know, we'll, we'll sell it, you
know, and it all seems so ridiculous.
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Um, but I did, I would, I would
PA for like 15 hours a day.
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And then at night I kind of rewrote
their movies, uh, their movie.
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It turned out that one of those
guys knew a guy who worked in
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the, at William Morris and they
sold the movie to Warner brothers.
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And so I went from being a PA
one day to being a, you know,
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and it was an action movie.
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And so like, and that was,
that was the movie that.
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you know, I made my first Marc on.
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And so like, from that day forward, I.
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It was an action movie writer, you
know, without really, it was my way
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in and, um, that movie never got made,
but from it, I got an agent and started
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writing, you know, you're writing that in
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Marc Preston: and of itself.
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It was its own lesson.
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It always blows my mind whenever I'm
speaking with folks and I take a look
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sometimes at their, you know, a quick
glance at their IMDb is how many seemingly
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really cool projects just were either
made and just never got released.
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Story, you know, how.
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There's some stumble in the process.
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Yeah.
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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.
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No, I mean, I worked on action movies for
the next 10 years, you know, um, and I
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think two of them got made and one of them
I got credit on and, but it's, it was,
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at the time it was a very funny thing.
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It's probably still this way, but, um,
you know, it's a, the action movie world
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was like, you, you, you pitch an idea,
you know, and, and you write a movie
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and then you get rewritten and maybe you
get brought back or you get hired on a
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different movie to rewrite, you know.
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I worked on a small piece of Rush Hour 2.
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You know, I worked on, like, I worked
on all these different things, but
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it was a cool experience and, um, and
you really, over time, start to figure
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out what you really want to write.
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Marc Preston: When you, uh, you decided
to go off to film school, what was the
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original plan where you're like, okay, I'm
going to be, uh, I'm going to be a writer,
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director, I'm going to be a producer.
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Executive producer.
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What was there originally
a plan as a freshman?
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What your game plan was?
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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.
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I mean, I, I got into college.
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I was a classics major.
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I was an English major and I, um, I
loved drama and I loved, um, stories.
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And, and so when I applied to
film school, my hope was just to
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sort of learn something about it.
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I didn't come from a family
or a world where anybody had
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any connections to that world.
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I just loved.
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I love movies and TV, you know, and
I, I, um, so my hope was just, yeah,
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I want to be a writer director, but
what was great about, you know, the
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graduate program at USC is they, they
teach you everything, you know, you
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learn about sound, you learn about
cinematography, you learn about all the
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different elements of, you know, sound.
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And, um, you know, it was,
it was just for somebody who
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didn't know anything about it.
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Um, it was just a great
learning experience.
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Marc Preston: Well, you mentioned,
uh, you were, you know, nobody
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in your family was doing this.
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What, what were your folks up to?
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What was their, uh,
what was their vocation?
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I'm assuming, by the way, you, you,
uh, did you grow up in New York or
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is that where you're originally from?
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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.
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And, um, Yeah, my mom was a teacher on
Long Island, um, a grade school teacher.
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And my dad worked, uh, as a stockbroker
and, and, um, you know, to their
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credit, they were always like, well,
you know, you know, it's a business
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where one in a million make it.
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And they were up to their credit.
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They were always like, Somebody's
got to be the one, you know,
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so I always believed like
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Marc Preston: that.
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That's, that's a rarity, you know,
usually a parent, there's always that
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inclination to like, you don't want them
to hurt themselves or go down a path.
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That's going to be negative.
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You know, somebody has got to
do that was my mentality when I
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got into doing stuff like this.
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It's like, well, somebody has
got to do it, you know, so no
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inclination to, uh, go into, uh,
uh, stock brokerage, uh, brokerage.
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I can, I talk for a living.
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I know it's hard to believe there
was no inclination to do that at all.
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Stuart Zicherman: No, um, I'm not.
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No finance was not my, uh, my jam.
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It's funny, you know, for years,
like, you know, like you were
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saying before, you know, especially
in the movie business, you write
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movies and things don't get made.
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So for years I was working, writing
movies, making a living, you know,
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and, you know, I don't think my dad,
you know, my dad worked in finance.
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He understood like, yeah, Paychecks,
you know, like, um, like I couldn't ever
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show anybody, nothing ever got made.
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So like, they were like,
what are you really doing?
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You know,
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Marc Preston: But you can say, you
know, stockbroker, you're, you can say
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your job's very speculative as well.
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You know, when you think about it.
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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah, it is.
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Marc Preston: So when you're growing
up though, uh, of course you want to go
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and you said you love movies and were
you like just movies in general or did
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you really like going to the theater?
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Was the actual theatrical experience, was
that like a big thing for you or you just
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didn't care if you know, TV, theater?
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Stuart Zicherman: I loved,
I loved going to the movies.
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I mean, I loved it, loved it.
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You know, my parents were divorced and
like, you know, and I just, I felt like
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everything I learned about, there's a
sounds cliche, but everything I learned
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about the world was, you know, movies.
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I mean, I remember going
like with the colleges that.
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I thought that colleges were like where
everything looked like in Dead Poets
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Society, you know, um, even though that
was not even a college, it was a prep
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school, but, um, you know, um, so yeah,
I mean, I, I love going to the theater.
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I love the movie experience.
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I remember, you know, there's a lot of
movies you can, you can say to me, you
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know, like, oh, uh, Empire Strikes Back
or Princess Bride, or, you know, uh, and
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I can tell you, uh, The theater I was
at, you know, I remember the experience.
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Marc Preston: The movies kind of
became a timeline for you, like a
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little notches along the timeline
where you can say, well, no, this
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movie came out at, you know, a grade
you're in, what you were doing.
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Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.
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And it was such an event thing in your
life, you know, it was like, um, you
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knew when he was coming out more all
day weekend or summer, you know, it was,
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it was such a big part of our, because
obviously we didn't have, You know,
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we didn't have it in our homes yet.
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Yeah.
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I loved it.
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I loved it.
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I, uh,
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Marc Preston: did you have any brothers
or sisters that, uh, were you an only kid?
245
,435 --> 00:11:25,795
Stuart Zicherman: I had a sister,
um, and I have a sister and, um,
246
,135 --> 00:11:27,745
yeah, she wasn't, they didn't do it.
247
,745 --> 00:11:31,314
It was mainly like a thing I do with
my friends and, you know, I loved it.
248
,314 --> 00:11:36,235
I loved storytelling and I loved reading
and I loved, um, just loved storytelling.
249
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And it
250
,845 --> 00:11:38,785
Marc Preston: was funny that what you
mentioned about Dead Poets Society,
251
,795 --> 00:11:40,155
cause I thought, oh, that was cool.
252
,155 --> 00:11:43,464
Small, uh, you know, uh,
college in Northeast.
253
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And then I got a little older.
254
,165 --> 00:11:47,404
It's like, well, Van Wilder, that seems
like kind of a fun college experience
255
,494 --> 00:11:52,534
also, you know, you know, what were the,
like those benchMarc movies or theatrical
256
,534 --> 00:11:56,205
experiences that you can call back on
and go, okay, that was Mount Rushmore
257
,205 --> 00:11:58,155
of movies that I just loved as a kid.
258
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Stuart Zicherman: Well, I mean, you
know, there were a few, I mean, there
259
,979 --> 00:12:06,230
was, you know, um, I love the princess
bride, you know, but I really loved,
260
,230 --> 00:12:07,890
like, this is obscure and weird.
261
,240 --> 00:12:12,870
There was a movie, uh, the eighties
called the killing fields that, um,
262
,900 --> 00:12:13,930
I remember seeing, it's like, it's
263
,930 --> 00:12:15,589
Marc Preston: about Cambodia or Vietnam.
264
,589 --> 00:12:16,939
I think, um,
265
,939 --> 00:12:22,834
Stuart Zicherman: and, um, remember
like, It just was so transported to this
266
,865 --> 00:12:26,124
other world, this whole story I didn't
know anything about, you know, and, and
267
,124 --> 00:12:29,535
the sort of growing up a Jewish kid on
Long Island, like, you know, about the
268
,545 --> 00:12:33,324
Holocaust, but you didn't know there was
like a massacre of millions of civilians,
269
,524 --> 00:12:37,874
like movies, this could take you to these
other places and these other stories.
270
,874 --> 00:12:42,765
And, and I remember, um, You know,
after, um, seeing that movie, like
271
,765 --> 00:12:48,265
I started a food drive at school
for like Cambodian refugees,
272
,295 --> 00:12:50,845
cause I was so taken by the movie.
273
,845 --> 00:12:53,854
I just remember, yeah,
I saw it multiple times.
274
,604 --> 00:12:57,925
I just like, you know, there were
movies like that, that just really, um.
275
,295 --> 00:13:00,844
Captivated me that the
drama of the storytelling,
276
,155 --> 00:13:03,605
Marc Preston: but that's really, I guess
what kind of boils down to is, is the
277
,605 --> 00:13:07,895
storytelling when you realize it's not
just, uh, you know, you were a certain
278
,895 --> 00:13:10,914
age where everybody's watching the action
movies, you know, the diehard or whatever,
279
,025 --> 00:13:14,155
nothing against that great Christmas
movie, but you know, when that was going
280
,155 --> 00:13:18,280
on, Then you look at the more serious, for
lack of a better way of putting it, there
281
,280 --> 00:13:19,560
are certain movies that kind of grab you.
282
,560 --> 00:13:22,530
I remember when I was a kid, I think
the movie, the right stuff just kind
283
,530 --> 00:13:26,130
of captivated me for some reason,
just a different tonality feeling.
284
,139 --> 00:13:29,240
It was like, wait a minute, this was,
and I loved space stuff, you know?
285
,240 --> 00:13:32,970
So now, you know, we were talking
to like the diversity of the things
286
,010 --> 00:13:36,415
that you've definitely contributed to
different types of, you know, Stuff,
287
,444 --> 00:13:40,464
but is there anything you'd like, you
know, we're moving in the documentary
288
,464 --> 00:13:43,505
direction to where you're like, okay,
ultimately documentaries, that's the
289
,505 --> 00:13:46,995
thing for me, that kind of storytelling
or was it like dramas or was there
290
,995 --> 00:13:48,865
anything we were like, that's my jam.
291
,954 --> 00:13:50,324
Stuart Zicherman: You
know, um, it's funny.
292
,324 --> 00:13:53,834
So I started out writing these
action movies and, and, um, there
293
,834 --> 00:13:57,005
was a certain type of action movie
that I loved from movies growing up.
294
,005 --> 00:13:57,795
Like I loved.
295
,195 --> 00:14:02,605
You know, the seventies, uh, thrillers
like marathon man and parallax view.
296
,605 --> 00:14:07,004
And if I could write like action movies
set in that, you know, in that tone, I
297
,005 --> 00:14:11,744
was, I was game to do that, but it's,
you know, it just wasn't like that.
298
,744 --> 00:14:17,255
And every action movie I worked on,
um, it, it felt like it was being built
299
,255 --> 00:14:23,225
by blocks, you know, um, and it just
didn't feel that creative and in between
300
,225 --> 00:14:27,155
the paid jobs I had on, on action
movies, I would try to write romantic
301
,155 --> 00:14:28,555
comedies, or I would try to write.
302
,880 --> 00:14:32,509
little obscure movies that would be
sort of, you know, maybe a way for me
303
,509 --> 00:14:34,099
to break out and do something different.
304
,510 --> 00:14:41,090
But I remember, um, I did rewrites on
rush hour two, uh, the second of the rush
305
,090 --> 00:14:45,885
hour movies, and, um, they were shooting
in Las Vegas and I remember It was really
306
,885 --> 00:14:50,625
like the first time I worked on a big
set with big stars and, and I remember
307
,635 --> 00:14:55,365
being on set in, in Las Vegas and, and,
um, just being in the middle of it, like,
308
,554 --> 00:15:03,035
and, and Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker and
were so funny in person, like, and they
309
,035 --> 00:15:08,395
were so, uh, and the improv and the, um,
and the way that they could just take
310
,395 --> 00:15:11,055
like a couple of words that we wrote
and turn it into something different.
311
,075 --> 00:15:13,865
Like I was like, I just
wanted to find my way.
312
,555 --> 00:15:15,635
And it felt so human.
313
,694 --> 00:15:18,935
I just wanted to find my way into
things that felt human, you know?
314
,345 --> 00:15:24,985
And, um, and TV really gave me that
opportunity because, you know, um, in
315
,985 --> 00:15:26,634
movies, things just didn't get made.
316
Transition to TV and Working with JJ Abrams
,634 --> 00:15:30,595
And when I got the TV, I actually got
the TV initially through JJ Abrams.
317
,705 --> 00:15:33,145
He produced my first pilot and, um,
318
,525 --> 00:15:34,581
Marc Preston: Oh, which
one, which one was that?
319
,581 --> 00:15:34,834
It was
320
,835 --> 00:15:36,275
Stuart Zicherman: a pilot
called pros and cons.
321
,275 --> 00:15:37,635
It didn't get picked up for series.
322
,685 --> 00:15:38,175
Marc Preston: Oh, okay.
323
,285 --> 00:15:41,135
Stuart Zicherman: Um, but it was
like a con man kind of thing.
324
,135 --> 00:15:43,825
And I remember like Being on
set, you know, when you're the
325
,825 --> 00:15:46,555
writer of a TV show, they, they
give you the keys to the kingdom.
326
,565 --> 00:15:47,345
Like you're on set.
327
,345 --> 00:15:49,759
You're, you're the one making
everything, you know, kind of happen.
328
,759 --> 00:15:50,285
You have that
329
,574 --> 00:15:51,935
Marc Preston: thing about TV
that's different than movies.
330
,964 --> 00:15:54,674
Movies are director's medium,
but it seems like, uh, TV is more
331
,674 --> 00:15:56,214
of a writer's medium, you know?
332
,634 --> 00:15:57,185
Stuart Zicherman: Oh, it's totally.
333
,665 --> 00:15:57,805
Yeah.
334
,054 --> 00:15:59,884
No, it's, I mean, you're, the
writer is the showrunner and the
335
,884 --> 00:16:02,045
showrunner is the boss, you know?
336
,474 --> 00:16:04,235
And, um, I couldn't believe it.
337
,444 --> 00:16:06,665
You know, I couldn't believe that you're
involved in casting and you're involved
338
,665 --> 00:16:08,875
in, in, you're staying there on set.
339
,410 --> 00:16:16,260
They say cut and the actors look to the
monitors and the director turns around
340
,260 --> 00:16:17,730
and looks at you and like, are we good?
341
,100 --> 00:16:19,579
And you're like, we're good.
342
,610 --> 00:16:19,910
You know?
343
,910 --> 00:16:25,640
And like, I, I just, it was so, and so
to me, I, um, I did, I never wanted to
344
,640 --> 00:16:28,579
be like, I was sort of pigeonholed and
stuck in that, in that action movie
345
,579 --> 00:16:29,959
thing at the beginning of my career.
346
,350 --> 00:16:33,760
I really, once I got into TV and was
able to sort of write about people.
347
,515 --> 00:16:36,574
and write about, you know, human stories.
348
,594 --> 00:16:40,285
I just, whatever I did, I wanted to be
writing about that, you know, and it
349
,285 --> 00:16:46,275
didn't matter if it was like an hour
long, you know, um, intense drama, like
350
,275 --> 00:16:51,795
the Americans or, or Lights Out or,
or things like that, or like slightly
351
,804 --> 00:16:53,774
more like, you know, lighter fare.
352
,785 --> 00:16:57,795
Like this first show I did, uh, for
JJ was a show called Six Degrees.
353
,245 --> 00:16:59,575
Um, it was on ABC.
354
,575 --> 00:17:02,585
Um, You know, that had a big concept.
355
,585 --> 00:17:03,605
It was about these people.
356
,605 --> 00:17:07,585
And, and, um, and it didn't matter
like anywhere in my career, I went,
357
,585 --> 00:17:09,825
like, there are things I'm just
interested in writing about, you know,
358
,255 --> 00:17:13,315
Marc Preston: JJ Abrams is kind
of like big guns, I mean, a lost
359
,755 --> 00:17:14,694
guy, it's kind of an example.
360
,694 --> 00:17:18,474
It's about real human experiences
kind of shot through the lens of this.
361
,755 --> 00:17:20,954
Kind of sci fi vibe, you know,
362
,185 --> 00:17:22,025
Stuart Zicherman: he's the king of it.
363
,025 --> 00:17:23,244
I mean, he's incredible at it.
364
,315 --> 00:17:28,405
I mean, he really, you know, he, um,
really inspired me to like, you can, you
365
,405 --> 00:17:33,425
can pitch and sell and write big ideas
that, but approach them character first.
366
,635 --> 00:17:37,215
And he was able to do that, you know,
alias and lost and all those shows
367
,215 --> 00:17:41,540
were just, you know, Um, Felicity, like
they were just all, his early TV shows
368
,540 --> 00:17:43,760
were all like character for shows.
369
,930 --> 00:17:48,880
And, um, so I've been really lucky in my
career, I mean, by not sort of sticking to
370
,880 --> 00:17:54,399
one genre, I get invited to do different
things, you know, and, and I've been
371
,399 --> 00:18:01,315
lucky enough to work on, you know, um, you
know, um, Half hours and comedies and, uh,
372
,355 --> 00:18:03,425
things that have a lot more humor to them.
373
,425 --> 00:18:07,145
And then really, really dark
dramas and, and spy thrillers.
374
,165 --> 00:18:11,205
And I, I've just been able to sort of
move between all these different worlds,
375
,205 --> 00:18:14,855
but with the sort of commonality of
like, at their core, they're, they're,
376
,865 --> 00:18:16,185
they're about something very human.
377
,794 --> 00:18:21,145
Marc Preston: Coming up with a story all
on your own, or do you like the challenge?
378
,145 --> 00:18:24,685
Like when there is a existing story,
existing script, and they talk about
379
,685 --> 00:18:28,105
their script doctors, you know, for
whatever reason, it's just not jelling.
380
,114 --> 00:18:30,704
Do you like to kind of come in
there and kind of solve the puzzle?
381
,705 --> 00:18:34,885
And do you prefer that, or do you prefer
coming up with something organically from
382
,885 --> 00:18:36,965
scratch, or is there even a preference?
383
,720 --> 00:18:38,970
Stuart Zicherman: Um, it's
not only a preference.
384
,970 --> 00:18:40,420
There are two totally different things.
385
,420 --> 00:18:42,980
You know, when you come into something
that already exists, it's like, it's easy
386
,980 --> 00:18:45,550
to see it from the 10, 000 foot view.
387
,570 --> 00:18:49,339
You know, you can see where the
problems are and, and, um, it
388
,339 --> 00:18:51,710
doesn't feel like yours, you know?
389
,060 --> 00:18:55,199
Um, so, I mean, I do
always like coming up with.
390
,650 --> 00:18:59,730
Um, you know, my own stuff or stuff
that's inspired by something or, or
391
,730 --> 00:19:05,139
inspired by a piece of history or
book or article or, um, a podcast,
392
,209 --> 00:19:09,170
you know, um, cause then you can
make those things your own, you know,
393
,339 --> 00:19:11,759
Marc Preston: I play around with
screenwriting just for, to me, it's
394
,760 --> 00:19:13,120
kind of a cathartic, it's kind of fun.
395
,120 --> 00:19:17,410
It's just to just fart around, open up
the software and, you know, fart around
396
,410 --> 00:19:18,470
is a professional term by the way.
397
,470 --> 00:19:19,329
I don't know if you'll agree with that.
398
,320 --> 00:19:22,230
What is your favorite
book on screenwriting?
399
,250 --> 00:19:24,429
I think I've read the ones
with the save the cat.
400
,429 --> 00:19:27,790
I think I've, I've read a couple,
you know, but what is yours?
401
,790 --> 00:19:32,350
Do you think that you mostly ascribe to is
like, okay, that's kind of the process I'm
402
,350 --> 00:19:34,590
using for the most part, or is there one?
403
,835 --> 00:19:35,875
Stuart Zicherman: Well,
there isn't really one.
404
,875 --> 00:19:38,805
I mean, um, you know, the Sid
Field book was sort of the one
405
,805 --> 00:19:40,335
that everyone learned on, right?
406
,435 --> 00:19:42,315
Like with the three act
structure and all that.
407
,534 --> 00:19:45,854
Um, I always really loved reading
anything by William Goldman.
408
,394 --> 00:19:50,844
Um, you know, and, and because he
sort of espoused this thing that I've
409
,984 --> 00:19:55,430
come to learn over the years, which
is like, The three act structure is
410
,630 --> 00:20:01,290
innate in any good story, you know,
if you, you know, I always say like,
411
,330 --> 00:20:03,490
you can sit at a dinner table, right?
412
,900 --> 00:20:08,369
And watch someone tell a really
interesting story who's not a good
413
,369 --> 00:20:09,930
storyteller and be very bored by it.
414
,409 --> 00:20:13,724
Or you can watch someone who's a great
storyteller tell a not great story.
415
,195 --> 00:20:18,745
Um, and just be completely enraptured
by it because some people just have
416
,745 --> 00:20:22,004
an understanding of like structure.
417
,415 --> 00:20:25,824
They know how to hit the beats and they
know how to, you know, when to move on
418
,835 --> 00:20:27,975
and when to move on to the next thing
and not to get stuck in something.
419
,975 --> 00:20:32,094
And that's always like William
Goldman just had an uncanny ability.
420
,350 --> 00:20:32,950
To do that,
421
The Writing Process and Screenwriting Insights
,000 --> 00:20:35,060
Marc Preston: when you're putting
something together, when you're writing
422
,130 --> 00:20:39,110
a screenplay, do you see in your
mind's eye, are you seeing it play out?
423
,150 --> 00:20:43,269
Do you see, in other words, uh, like
even, even the physicality of the, of
424
,269 --> 00:20:47,349
the actors or the, the, the, the, the
seat, the set, like, uh, like whenever
425
,349 --> 00:20:49,399
I write something, I always seem
to be a little heavy on explaining.
426
,420 --> 00:20:51,240
This is what it's looking like.
427
,240 --> 00:20:53,500
This is going to be
aesthetic of it, if you will.
428
,690 --> 00:20:56,950
Or do you, do you just focus just on
the words and the thought, you know,
429
,010 --> 00:20:59,070
just, I know it's a very general
question, but I was just kind of
430
,070 --> 00:20:59,879
Stuart Zicherman: curious.
431
,880 --> 00:21:00,910
It's a good question.
432
,975 --> 00:21:03,875
It's actually, um, I'll
answer that in two parts.
433
,885 --> 00:21:05,975
One is the early part of my career.
434
,385 --> 00:21:11,535
Um, I did kind of what you, what you're
talking about is I would overwrite things
435
,545 --> 00:21:13,764
that I over describe things, right?
436
,765 --> 00:21:16,444
I wanted the reader to really understand.
437
,840 --> 00:21:18,860
What I was talking about, right?
438
,209 --> 00:21:22,439
But as I've moved on my career,
you start making shows more.
439
,439 --> 00:21:24,300
You start writing them to make them right.
440
,580 --> 00:21:26,599
You start writing them thinking
you're going to make them.
441
,599 --> 00:21:28,849
So it's like, it's about giving
the essence of something.
442
,860 --> 00:21:31,409
You know, you're going to
end up finding location.
443
,419 --> 00:21:32,520
You're going to end up looking.
444
,909 --> 00:21:35,070
For locations, you know, you're
going to end up finding actors.
445
,270 --> 00:21:40,219
So what I try to do now more is give
the essence of what I'm trying to say
446
,239 --> 00:21:41,889
versus be super specific about it.
447
,719 --> 00:21:47,089
Um, cause that essence, you know, it's,
it's important is eventually going
448
,089 --> 00:21:50,609
to be a director and there's going to
be a location managers reading this.
449
,895 --> 00:21:51,565
for locations.
450
,565 --> 00:21:54,485
And there's going to be a, you
know, production designers reading
451
,485 --> 00:21:57,225
it to try to figure out like what
the sets are going to look like.
452
,225 --> 00:22:00,055
And like, even if it's super
specific, in my words, they're
453
,075 --> 00:22:01,484
going to make it their own anyway.
454
,064 --> 00:22:04,744
Marc Preston: A lot of chefs end up ending
up in the kitchen when a movie gets made.
455
,745 --> 00:22:04,925
Yeah.
456
,925 --> 00:22:05,495
Or a TV show.
457
,495 --> 00:22:05,815
Yeah.
458
,965 --> 00:22:09,445
And there was something I read once
to never cast it as you're writing it.
459
,454 --> 00:22:11,745
To me, it's like, that
almost happens organically.
460
,765 --> 00:22:15,050
Do you try to like, When you're
writing, do you have an actor in mind
461
,060 --> 00:22:18,550
just as sort of a placeholder, for
lack of a better way of putting it?
462
,570 --> 00:22:19,200
Does that make sense?
463
,750 --> 00:22:20,390
Stuart Zicherman: Yeah, yeah.
464
,670 --> 00:22:24,810
I always end up with like, sometimes
I'm writing for a specific actor, so
465
,090 --> 00:22:28,750
that's different, but when I'm not
writing for a specific actor, I get like
466
,309 --> 00:22:31,649
an image of the character in my head.
467
,035 --> 00:22:36,215
It may not be like an actual person,
but it's sort of like, I just, it's
468
,265 --> 00:22:40,425
this thing that I imagined in my head
and that's the character, that's their
469
,425 --> 00:22:45,325
voice and they're kind of like their
shadow, you know, um, what's funny is
470
,325 --> 00:22:49,774
that every single time, you know, I'm
done with something and it's going to
471
,774 --> 00:22:52,275
go into production and we go to casting.
472
,145 --> 00:22:57,855
Like the first week of casting is
always just so painful because you have
473
,855 --> 00:23:01,814
all these actors reading the words on
tape or in front of you and casting.
474
,814 --> 00:23:05,035
And you're like, it just doesn't
sound anything like you imagined.
475
,025 --> 00:23:06,425
Marc Preston: Yeah.
476
,795 --> 00:23:08,224
Stuart Zicherman: Um,
and then you see wild
477
,224 --> 00:23:10,984
Marc Preston: interpretations of it going
a different lot of different directions.
478
,985 --> 00:23:11,075
Yeah.
479
,575 --> 00:23:15,375
Stuart Zicherman: Then after about a
week you start seeing it in the way that
480
,405 --> 00:23:18,565
they're doing it, not in the way that
you remember doing it in your head for so
481
,565 --> 00:23:19,824
Marc Preston: long.
482
,905 --> 00:23:20,015
Stuart Zicherman: So.
483
,340 --> 00:23:21,410
Yeah, it's a process.
484
,670 --> 00:23:22,890
Marc Preston: Yeah, I remember
I was auditioning once.
485
,890 --> 00:23:24,160
There was a callback I was with.
486
,190 --> 00:23:25,240
It was for the TV show.
487
,240 --> 00:23:27,120
Um, oh shit, I forgot.
488
,140 --> 00:23:29,800
Um, it was, they shot it in New Orleans.
489
,900 --> 00:23:33,100
Oh gosh, it was, uh, um,
the guy that did The Wire.
490
,109 --> 00:23:34,580
They did the show based in New Orleans.
491
,850 --> 00:23:35,189
Oh yeah.
492
,190 --> 00:23:35,704
Tremé.
493
,704 --> 00:23:38,515
Tremé, Tremé, why can't,
uh, Couldn't remember that.
494
,515 --> 00:23:39,865
I lived down there for a long time.
495
,985 --> 00:23:42,985
I was auditioning for, uh, Tim
Robbins was directing that episode
496
,015 --> 00:23:45,725
and they had somebody from HBO
and they had the writer there.
497
,945 --> 00:23:46,675
I was more nervous.
498
,675 --> 00:23:48,375
The fact that writer is sitting up there.
499
,405 --> 00:23:49,294
Cause those are his words.
500
,295 --> 00:23:50,605
He wrote, they're looking at me.
501
,605 --> 00:23:53,835
I'm like, I'm more concerned about
the expressions on the writer's face.
502
,284 --> 00:23:58,364
I'm delivering the lines, you know,
cause this came from, that came from him.
503
,374 --> 00:23:58,804
You know,
504
,184 --> 00:24:02,165
Stuart Zicherman: I always say like,
what's amazing about the process, right.
505
,165 --> 00:24:05,005
Of, of writing shows or movies.
506
,015 --> 00:24:05,844
It's like, we.
507
,325 --> 00:24:09,345
Writers, we start with
a blank screen, right?
508
,345 --> 00:24:10,565
It's just, it's just us.
509
,575 --> 00:24:12,855
It's our, it's just me in it, right?
510
,185 --> 00:24:15,315
And for the whole time I'm writing
it, it's just the two of us.
511
,675 --> 00:24:19,154
But what happens is like, the second
that you take it off your computer and
512
,164 --> 00:24:23,134
start, like, you give it to a director,
then it becomes, the director is also,
513
,155 --> 00:24:26,585
the director is going home at night and
And telling their husband or wife, right.
514
,975 --> 00:24:30,275
Um, my, my new show is this right.
515
,275 --> 00:24:31,945
And then you start making it.
516
,955 --> 00:24:35,535
Now there's a whole crew and that
crew has given up, you know, 18
517
,535 --> 00:24:36,945
hours a day to work on the set.
518
,104 --> 00:24:40,300
And they're going home and say, my
new show is, you know, So by the
519
,300 --> 00:24:43,850
time like you're done, the actors
and the crew and everybody, there's
520
,889 --> 00:24:47,830
300 people who feel like it's their
show, no longer just your show.
521
,949 --> 00:24:49,000
And I love that.
522
,120 --> 00:24:49,989
Like, I love that.
523
,300 --> 00:24:52,539
Marc Preston: I was about to say,
there's got to be such a source of pride
524
,559 --> 00:24:56,100
that, you know, you created literally
something out of nothing, you know,
525
,100 --> 00:24:57,799
and now, now there's budgets behind it.
526
,799 --> 00:25:00,940
Now there are people putting food
on their table with is, it's one
527
,940 --> 00:25:02,270
of those things I think writers.
528
,440 --> 00:25:05,980
Uh, you know, when you start looking
at the order of the credits, me doing
529
,980 --> 00:25:09,730
narration a lot and whenever I see
that the narrator on a documentary
530
,730 --> 00:25:13,060
or a TV show comes as one of the last
credits, I'm like, that should be
531
,060 --> 00:25:15,160
the first, you know, 'cause that's
who you're with the whole time.
532
,160 --> 00:25:19,180
To me, I think the writer really,
it is their, it's their baby
533
,180 --> 00:25:20,290
and everybody came after that.
534
,290 --> 00:25:23,140
But that's just kind of my interpretation
of No, I think it's, you know,
535
,140 --> 00:25:23,920
kinda like what you're saying.
536
,920 --> 00:25:24,670
Stuart Zicherman: I think it's true.
537
,760 --> 00:25:25,720
And, and it is.
538
,720 --> 00:25:26,500
It is your baby.
539
,975 --> 00:25:29,495
But it becomes a lot of
other people's babies.
540
,675 --> 00:25:34,805
And then eventually, which is always
the hardest part is, you know, you give
541
,805 --> 00:25:38,955
it out to the world and then it becomes
the world's show, you know, or movie.
542
,334 --> 00:25:43,520
And, and so it's, it, in
reality, it's just, It just
543
,520 --> 00:25:44,889
isn't yours anymore, you know?
544
,889 --> 00:25:45,520
It was, yeah.
545
,520 --> 00:25:48,370
Marc Preston: I just think it's so funny
that, you know, you look at a, a, a film,
546
,399 --> 00:25:51,820
uh, and a lot of times you, you, you just,
now, if you're in the, in, in the industry
547
,820 --> 00:25:54,879
and you're like, you probably know who
the writer is, you know, but usually it's
548
,879 --> 00:25:59,770
the director or the big stars in it, and
the writer doesn't always get referenced.
549
,770 --> 00:26:01,870
And I'm like, wait a minute, this
thing didn't exist without them.
550
,870 --> 00:26:04,060
You know, that's, that's, you
know, they're kinda the quiet
551
,060 --> 00:26:05,890
heroes, you know, of the Hollywood.
552
Personal Projects and Inspirations
,000 --> 00:26:15,130
If you look at your projects you've
done, is there anything you've done
553
,130 --> 00:26:19,300
in particular that was close to you
or close to a personal experience?
554
,330 --> 00:26:22,960
Uh, cause you mentioned you were, your
parents are divorced, but I thought the
555
,960 --> 00:26:27,619
movie adult child of divorce was such a
fun kind of concept, but not just that.
556
,619 --> 00:26:29,670
I just kind of saw that and I was
like, well, I was wondering, is there
557
,670 --> 00:26:33,030
anything that really kind of took a
big chunk of your own personal life?
558
,440 --> 00:26:34,700
And you put that into the script.
559
,700 --> 00:26:35,880
Was there anything you've
ever done like that?
560
,880 --> 00:26:36,270
Yeah.
561
,290 --> 00:26:39,079
Stuart Zicherman: Well, I mean,
obviously that, that movie ACOD was,
562
,100 --> 00:26:41,385
um, It was about my parents divorce.
563
,385 --> 00:26:45,905
I wanted to make something, um,
that was funny about divorce.
564
,915 --> 00:26:50,284
You know, I'd grown up on all these very,
very serious divorce movies and obviously
565
,284 --> 00:26:51,785
divorce is a very serious subject.
566
,824 --> 00:26:52,024
Marc Preston: Yeah.
567
,135 --> 00:26:53,414
Like Kramer versus Kramer.
568
,414 --> 00:26:55,214
When I was a kid, I was like,
wow, this is heavy, man.
569
,255 --> 00:26:55,455
Stuart Zicherman: Yeah.
570
,864 --> 00:26:59,534
They tried to like make, make some light
out of it and War of the Roses and,
571
,035 --> 00:27:04,085
um, you know, but there'd never really
been like a divorce comedy per se.
572
,085 --> 00:27:08,620
And I, my parents got divorced when I
was a kid and I thought it was You know,
573
,740 --> 00:27:14,070
it was sad and hard, but there were also
like moments of like insanity and levity.
574
,090 --> 00:27:19,619
And, um, and so I just, yeah, I, I
wanted to write something that, um, my
575
,620 --> 00:27:25,550
parents had, you know, there was a funny
situation in my parents divorce that I
576
,590 --> 00:27:27,030
thought could make for a good comedy.
577
Personal Stories and Casting Choices
,300 --> 00:27:32,030
So yeah, I mean, um, that was, that
was a very personal story, poured
578
,030 --> 00:27:33,930
a lot of my own life into that.
579
,225 --> 00:27:37,315
Marc Preston: Was your dad,
uh, was it Richard Jenkins?
580
,315 --> 00:27:37,859
Okay.
581
,859 --> 00:27:42,575
Was it, was it, was the casting
at all anywhere close to, uh,
582
,665 --> 00:27:43,875
uh, to your, to your real folks?
583
,895 --> 00:27:45,864
Stuart Zicherman: No, you know,
at a certain point you don't
584
,864 --> 00:27:47,874
want to offend your parents, so
you don't want to get too close.
585
,875 --> 00:27:53,695
Um, but you know, it also was a case
of, um, again, like these things
586
,695 --> 00:27:57,695
always, it's funny, I find even in
the most personal things I've worked
587
,695 --> 00:27:59,805
on, the Things I care about the most.
588
,835 --> 00:28:02,065
Um, they feel closest to home.
589
,085 --> 00:28:04,395
Like they take on a life
of their own, you know?
590
,845 --> 00:28:08,004
Yeah, no, Richard Jenkins and my
dad have very little in common.
591
,375 --> 00:28:12,014
Um, but Richard Jenkins
is a funny son of a gun,
592
,105 --> 00:28:12,714
Marc Preston: you know?
593
,074 --> 00:28:16,745
He's done so many wonderful things,
but when he played, uh, uh, something
594
,754 --> 00:28:18,024
about Mary, he was a therapist.
595
,805 --> 00:28:22,295
It was just so subtle and it wasn't
even a big part of the movie,
596
,295 --> 00:28:25,845
but it was just like, Just so
random, uh, but anyway, I'm sorry.
597
,845 --> 00:28:28,705
So I kind of miss those kind of
comedies, but in talking about things
598
,705 --> 00:28:32,335
that are close or personal and then
things that are scripted and things
599
,335 --> 00:28:34,144
that come from somewhere internal.
600
Transition to American Sports Story
,144 --> 00:28:38,304
And here you are stepping into something
with, uh, American sports story.
601
,625 --> 00:28:39,975
That's nothing that you created.
602
,005 --> 00:28:41,015
That's real life.
603
,055 --> 00:28:42,345
I mean, what, what was that turn?
604
,445 --> 00:28:43,665
That had been kind of itching at you.
605
,665 --> 00:28:45,955
You're like, I want to do
something with this story.
606
,225 --> 00:28:48,554
Stuart Zicherman: Well, you know,
I think the last bunch of years,
607
,565 --> 00:28:51,934
I mean, everything I've worked
on last bunch of years has been
608
,934 --> 00:28:54,085
based on some underlying material.
609
,085 --> 00:28:56,144
I did sweet bitter, which
was based on a book.
610
,665 --> 00:29:00,465
Um, you know, uh, the street next
door, which was based on a podcast.
611
Exploring the Aaron Hernandez Case
,955 --> 00:29:06,164
Um, you know, and then along came, you
know, uh, the Aaron Hernandez story.
612
,495 --> 00:29:10,115
Which was based on the, the, the
spotlight team at the Boston Globe
613
,125 --> 00:29:14,925
at these, this series of articles
about, um, the Hernandez story, which
614
,965 --> 00:29:17,354
Marc Preston: as a sports fan,
I thought I really knew when
615
,354 --> 00:29:18,305
they're a movie called spotlight.
616
,905 --> 00:29:22,445
So is that the same edit,
uh, uh, investigative team?
617
,905 --> 00:29:23,345
Oh, okay.
618
,920 --> 00:29:26,340
Stuart Zicherman: So they did,
they did the priest, uh, the priest
619
,340 --> 00:29:27,710
story that movie was made out of.
620
,190 --> 00:29:31,900
Um, and the spotlight team is this
constantly sort of like revolving group
621
,900 --> 00:29:36,049
of reporters at the globe that does
like deep dives into different stories.
622
,070 --> 00:29:39,479
And they did this deep dive
into the Hernandez story, which.
623
,620 --> 00:29:42,940
I think a lot of people, including
me, thought that they knew, right?
624
,960 --> 00:29:44,900
Like I followed that
story when it happened.
625
,330 --> 00:29:46,270
I'm a big sports fan.
626
,270 --> 00:29:47,350
I thought I knew the story.
627
,720 --> 00:29:52,979
It turned out, you know, the spotlight
team, you know, wrote about a lot of
628
,999 --> 00:29:58,662
elements, the story that really changed
the narrative for me and, um, you know,
629
,430 --> 00:30:03,260
When you ask about making it personal,
I think like you have to find a way
630
,500 --> 00:30:05,220
as a writer, you have to find a way.
631
,640 --> 00:30:09,340
into anything that you write,
any true story or anything that's
632
,340 --> 00:30:10,860
based on someone else's story.
633
,130 --> 00:30:14,129
You've got to find a way to
personally find your, you know, this
634
,130 --> 00:30:18,490
was a funny one for me, a really
challenging one, you know, because,
635
,799 --> 00:30:23,600
you know, it's about a murderer,
but also like a world class athlete.
636
,685 --> 00:30:29,665
with a drug addiction, um, you know,
who, you know, is, is half Puerto
637
,665 --> 00:30:34,535
Rican, half Italian, incredible
athlete, um, exploring a sexuality.
638
,935 --> 00:30:41,354
I, you know, and none of those things,
um, including an athlete, but I, I
639
,354 --> 00:30:46,151
did see in the story in, in, in, you
know, when I, when I, when I did, when
640
,151 --> 00:30:50,925
I did my deep dive into the material,
I saw that there was like a really
641
,345 --> 00:30:53,855
intense story about authenticity.
642
,400 --> 00:30:57,850
About a person trying to find
Their authenticity and like
643
,940 --> 00:31:00,460
figure out who they are and who
they're going to be in the world.
644
,000 --> 00:31:03,210
And, and that was something
I, I could relate to.
645
,210 --> 00:31:04,540
I thought other people could relate to.
646
,980 --> 00:31:07,060
And that was my approach
to the, to the material.
647
Challenges of Portraying Real People
,310 --> 00:31:11,029
Marc Preston: Wasn't there a talk with
him that there was, uh, that he may
648
,030 --> 00:31:16,530
have also had a CTE or brain injury that
may have been, or am I imagining that?
649
,530 --> 00:31:17,150
I'm trying to remember.
650
,710 --> 00:31:18,710
Stuart Zicherman: That's
a big part of the show.
651
,710 --> 00:31:20,270
He, um, he died.
652
,280 --> 00:31:26,550
He had the largest, um, Um, he
had the worst case of CTE, um,
653
,920 --> 00:31:28,920
ever diagnosed in someone his age.
654
,890 --> 00:31:32,240
Um, they can only
diagnose CTE after death.
655
,680 --> 00:31:36,599
Um, and, um, unfortunately after he
committed suicide, you know, they
656
,600 --> 00:31:39,939
did a, um, an autopsy of his brain
and they, they discovered that he
657
,949 --> 00:31:42,800
had very, very severe, uh, CTE.
658
,210 --> 00:31:46,590
Marc Preston: The, that Will Smith movie
he did, uh, which it's, it seems like
659
,590 --> 00:31:48,600
there's still a discussion about it.
660
,610 --> 00:31:52,290
In fact, my speaking with my son about a
few months ago and we're talking about,
661
,309 --> 00:31:56,329
uh, that there is talk about, you know,
years down the road, will they be playing
662
,330 --> 00:31:57,880
football the same way they are now?
663
,270 --> 00:32:00,359
You look at some of these athletes
and you look at the way they're
664
,359 --> 00:32:03,160
impaired later on, but you look
at this guy who's really young.
665
,350 --> 00:32:03,610
Okay.
666
,610 --> 00:32:07,160
They, then they're saying, okay, this
actually starts in high school or even
667
,160 --> 00:32:09,434
before that, you know, it's not just
being hit, but they're playing football.
668
,575 --> 00:32:13,135
Quick stops, you know, and, and factoring
all that in, you know, did you feel
669
,135 --> 00:32:18,065
like extra responsibility because of,
uh, uh, you know, this, there, there
670
,065 --> 00:32:20,985
are people still alive, there's family,
there's people out there in here.
671
,985 --> 00:32:21,904
You are telling a story.
672
,905 --> 00:32:25,054
Was it kind of, did you feel extra
pressure to kind of get this for
673
,055 --> 00:32:26,045
lack of better way of putting it?
674
,045 --> 00:32:28,845
There's no right or wrong, but you
know, to get it right, you know?
675
,855 --> 00:32:29,165
Yeah,
676
,215 --> 00:32:31,695
Stuart Zicherman: no, I, I felt
a ton of responsibility, you
677
,695 --> 00:32:35,195
know, um, and the biggest thing,
most important thing to me was.
678
,145 --> 00:32:38,715
To never forgive
Hernandez for what he did.
679
,795 --> 00:32:40,745
You know, we're making a show
where we have to make this
680
,745 --> 00:32:43,445
character likeable, um, relatable.
681
,445 --> 00:32:46,945
We have to sort of like explain kind
of why we think he got to where,
682
,075 --> 00:32:48,525
you know, and did what he did.
683
,845 --> 00:32:52,974
But, um, I thought it was absolutely
paramount that we never forgive him.
684
,014 --> 00:32:58,025
We never let the audience forget that he
ended people's lives, and ruined families.
685
,025 --> 00:33:02,510
And, um, you know, we, You
know, my only thing was, is
686
,510 --> 00:33:04,130
like, he wasn't born that way.
687
,130 --> 00:33:04,930
He wasn't born a murderer.
688
,670 --> 00:33:07,040
He became a murderer.
689
,350 --> 00:33:13,489
And, um, so I felt incumbent upon us
to show this journey and show, you
690
,489 --> 00:33:17,469
know, cause I think that we sometimes
live in, in a, in a world where now,
691
,740 --> 00:33:21,470
where we get a little one note about
things, you know, he's, he's a monster.
692
,710 --> 00:33:23,320
Well, yeah, but he wasn't born a monster.
693
,320 --> 00:33:24,190
He became a monster.
694
,190 --> 00:33:26,670
And so like, let's look at why and how.
695
,020 --> 00:33:27,874
And, um, yeah.
696
,245 --> 00:33:32,555
you know, and by the same token,
you don't want to blame, you
697
,555 --> 00:33:35,535
know, all of it on any one thing.
698
,535 --> 00:33:38,835
You know, you don't want to say that,
um, he did it because of the CTE,
699
,915 --> 00:33:42,335
because there are people who had CTE
and did not commit murder, you know?
700
,365 --> 00:33:42,585
Yeah.
701
,585 --> 00:33:42,895
Marc Preston: Right.
702
,895 --> 00:33:43,234
Right.
703
,235 --> 00:33:45,904
Stuart Zicherman: Um, so, you know, I
think we just wanted to introduce all
704
,904 --> 00:33:50,445
these elements, you know, the, the drug
use, the sexuality, the violence, um,
705
,835 --> 00:33:54,355
you know, the, the, the brain injury
stuff and, um, and leave it to the
706
,355 --> 00:33:58,880
audience to sort of like, You know,
put it all together to understand
707
,880 --> 00:34:00,790
that he lived a very complicated life.
708
,310 --> 00:34:03,780
But again, never forgive
him for what he did.
709
Casting and Character Interpretation
,030 --> 00:34:05,580
Marc Preston: Being
the showrunner as well.
710
,590 --> 00:34:09,549
I mean, this, you really kind of taking
on the, not just writing it, but you're
711
,550 --> 00:34:13,739
also making, you know, big decisions,
you know, was the casting, you know,
712
,739 --> 00:34:16,480
something that would cause, you know,
considering you're, you're doing a biopic
713
,550 --> 00:34:18,689
basically, and, and, and was the casting.
714
,880 --> 00:34:19,790
Hard at all.
715
,790 --> 00:34:22,650
Or what did it, did you like when you,
when you kind of landed on, you know, the
716
,650 --> 00:34:25,660
character's like, okay, that's the one,
that's the one, but just what's, what
717
,660 --> 00:34:27,190
was the casting process like for this?
718
,319 --> 00:34:29,359
Stuart Zicherman: No, the casting is
really hard for something like this.
719
,359 --> 00:34:32,269
You know, I remember writing the
pilot and thinking like, Oh man,
720
,910 --> 00:34:33,829
it's never going to get made.
721
,830 --> 00:34:36,780
I'm never going to find a guy to
play her in her dad does, you know?
722
,429 --> 00:34:41,640
Uh, but we did, we found this
incredible, You know, guy who, who
723
,650 --> 00:34:45,120
really, you know, you know, when you
say we're making a biopic, we're, we're
724
,130 --> 00:34:47,020
making, we're interpreting the story.
725
,020 --> 00:34:50,040
So we're not looking necessarily
for somebody who looks exactly like
726
,040 --> 00:34:53,820
him or looking for somebody who can
sort of like, you know, inhabit the
727
,820 --> 00:34:57,290
character and, and bring to life
all the things in the scripts that
728
,290 --> 00:34:59,259
were, you know, that we're writing.
729
,260 --> 00:34:59,750
So.
730
,150 --> 00:35:04,120
Um, but it's a challenging, it's a
challenging world and challenging
731
,120 --> 00:35:08,370
show because, you know, you need a
guy who, um, you know, for Aaron in
732
,370 --> 00:35:12,480
particular, you need a guy who is
big and strong and tough and mean and
733
,490 --> 00:35:17,710
scary, but also like this particular
character was goofy and funny and silly.
734
,830 --> 00:35:21,360
And um, you know, you're, you're looking
for somebody that can, can take all that
735
,360 --> 00:35:25,300
on, you know, but the same token, you're
also casting a lot of well known people.
736
,710 --> 00:35:27,360
So it was tricky with Belichick.
737
,620 --> 00:35:32,890
Urban Meyer, you know, Rob Gronkowski,
like all these people that we
738
,890 --> 00:35:36,530
all know really, really well as
sports fans, um, you know, you,
739
,569 --> 00:35:38,060
you don't want to do caricatures.
740
,120 --> 00:35:38,829
That's my thing.
741
,200 --> 00:35:42,009
It's like, again, we're trying to sort
of like tell the story, but you don't
742
,010 --> 00:35:43,649
want, I would tell the actors too.
743
,945 --> 00:35:48,275
You don't want the actors to, I was like,
don't, you know, tell our Belichick actor,
744
,305 --> 00:35:51,335
don't sit and watch hours and hours of
Belichick and trying to imitate him.
745
,895 --> 00:35:53,235
Like, make him your own.
746
,505 --> 00:35:55,295
It was hard, but it was a hard challenge.
747
,305 --> 00:35:56,564
It was really fun.
748
,925 --> 00:36:00,394
Marc Preston: I spoke with James Comey,
you know, FBI director, and then Jeff
749
,394 --> 00:36:02,034
Daniels, who's a phenomenal actor.
750
,075 --> 00:36:04,965
And, you know, And we were speaking
and he and Jeff Daniels did
751
,965 --> 00:36:06,205
not have really been dialogue.
752
,205 --> 00:36:10,565
I mean, Jeff kind of came out of, he kind
of created on his own interpretation.
753
,665 --> 00:36:13,515
And I think that that's,
it's two routes you could go.
754
,605 --> 00:36:17,524
I mean, one could almost come off as a
caricature, you know, and James Comey is
755
,524 --> 00:36:20,264
like the six foot six ridiculous tall guy.
756
,624 --> 00:36:23,535
And here's Jeff Daniels, you know,
this physically, they're not going to
757
,535 --> 00:36:27,095
be the same, but it's, it's, it's the
interpretation that makes it interesting.
758
,095 --> 00:36:31,150
I think, you know, the, the, the, Nobody
wants an imitation, you know, but in
759
,150 --> 00:36:34,410
doing this, did you have all the source
material there, you know, from the
760
,760 --> 00:36:39,049
Boston Globe or what, or, or did you go
out and do some interviews and sit down
761
,050 --> 00:36:42,609
with different, uh, different people
who were component parts of the story?
762
,000 --> 00:36:45,429
Stuart Zicherman: We didn't talk to
anybody that was actually in the story.
763
,479 --> 00:36:50,150
Um, you know, we, um, we did
have, we did have all the Boston
764
,150 --> 00:36:51,880
Globe stuff, the spotlight team.
765
,410 --> 00:36:57,580
Um, particularly the reporters who
had reported on the story were so
766
,860 --> 00:37:00,399
giving with their time and their,
and their information, and they
767
,399 --> 00:37:03,590
would come into the writer's room and
they would answer questions for us.
768
,880 --> 00:37:05,370
And that was great.
769
,500 --> 00:37:08,480
And then at the same time, you know,
there were, there were some things
770
,889 --> 00:37:10,880
that we needed to learn more about.
771
,309 --> 00:37:15,650
Um, and we wanted to do it
without necessarily reaching out
772
,650 --> 00:37:18,120
to the real people in the story.
773
,430 --> 00:37:22,150
So, you know, like for example,
I really wanted to portray.
774
,500 --> 00:37:28,450
what it would be like, you know,
the sort of like toxicity of a male,
775
,460 --> 00:37:30,610
like of a locker room at the time.
776
,850 --> 00:37:33,880
The University of Florida locker
room was known to be like, you know,
777
,949 --> 00:37:39,380
toxic, homophobic, um, place, you
know, with a bunch of characters.
778
,380 --> 00:37:43,160
And I'd never been in a, in a,
You know, in a college football
779
,160 --> 00:37:44,320
locker room or pro locker room.
780
,530 --> 00:37:47,930
So we ended up bringing on a writer
on the show who's a professional
781
,930 --> 00:37:50,010
football player and aspiring writer.
782
,010 --> 00:37:51,700
And he's been in locker rooms.
783
,840 --> 00:37:53,280
So it's like, you know,
it's that kind of thing.
784
,290 --> 00:37:56,760
Like you just trying to gain
experience of the, of this world.
785
,865 --> 00:38:02,025
Marc Preston: It seems like a very pivotal
piece of the story, you know, you have one
786
,025 --> 00:38:06,834
guy who's living his own truth internally,
externally, whatever, and you know,
787
,865 --> 00:38:12,005
where that may not play very well in the
machismo of the, uh, of the locker room.
788
,005 --> 00:38:12,195
Yeah.
789
,400 --> 00:38:16,780
Once this was released, did you get any
feedback from anybody who was a part of
790
,780 --> 00:38:20,420
the story who, you know, they're like,
yeah, this, this, this was on point.
791
,660 --> 00:38:23,290
Have you spoken with anybody
who was a part of the story
792
,390 --> 00:38:24,459
as subsequent to the release?
793
,670 --> 00:38:27,970
Stuart Zicherman: No, I mean, you
know, it's, it's again, like, um,
794
,139 --> 00:38:32,090
you're not going to get like, you
know, Tom Brady commenting on, uh, you
795
,100 --> 00:38:35,710
know, um, I did have a cool moment.
796
,750 --> 00:38:41,460
Uh, we were shooting some of the football
down in Florida and, um, Uh, there was
797
,650 --> 00:38:45,930
a guy who played, um, who played, we had
all these former football players and,
798
,390 --> 00:38:49,590
you know, that were pretending to be
our football players and, and there was
799
,590 --> 00:38:55,669
a, uh, a guy, uh, who had played on the
University of Florida team with Hernandez.
800
,335 --> 00:39:00,555
Chris Rainey, he came over and introduced
himself and told me about like what it was
801
,555 --> 00:39:01,775
like to be in the locker room with him.
802
,775 --> 00:39:03,255
And that was really cool.
803
,365 --> 00:39:08,174
Um, you know, just getting to talk to, I
talked to a few reporters, um, who were in
804
,175 --> 00:39:12,964
the locker room with the Patriots and at
that time, um, guys who covered Hernandez.
805
,384 --> 00:39:18,505
Um, and yeah, it's been nice to hear,
like, you know, um, you know, if
806
,505 --> 00:39:23,495
you watch the series one to 10, um,
you know, I think people are seeing,
807
,965 --> 00:39:26,425
uh, the complexity and, and, and.
808
,800 --> 00:39:30,210
Um, from the few people that,
um, again, most of all it's,
809
,210 --> 00:39:32,360
it's the Boston Globe reporters.
810
,360 --> 00:39:34,280
I, they're the ones I
really wanted to make proud.
811
,650 --> 00:39:37,970
They feel like we've done a really
good job at sort of like, you know,
812
,990 --> 00:39:41,459
portraying the complexity that was
Hernandez's life in a way that,
813
,860 --> 00:39:42,960
that may have been really real.
814
,219 --> 00:39:45,370
You know, you don't know when
you go into a story like this,
815
,380 --> 00:39:47,870
like sadly Hernandez is, is gone.
816
,420 --> 00:39:53,400
Um, we can't reach out to him, you know,
and so much of everything that's ever
817
,400 --> 00:39:55,089
been told about his story is speculative.
818
,600 --> 00:39:57,070
You know, no one really knows.
819
,505 --> 00:40:01,805
It's been good feedback for us to hear
back, like from people who are around him
820
,805 --> 00:40:08,094
and that world and know the story that,
um, our show feels like it's in the zone.
821
,455 --> 00:40:09,154
Marc Preston: No pun intended.
822
Future Projects and Interests
,154 --> 00:40:09,365
Of course.
823
,375 --> 00:40:09,545
Yes.
824
,685 --> 00:40:13,704
No, uh, the, so has this whetted
your appetite at all for doing any
825
,705 --> 00:40:15,094
other kind of projects like this?
826
,094 --> 00:40:15,194
Yeah.
827
,405 --> 00:40:17,855
Taking not just athletes, but.
828
,180 --> 00:40:22,820
Any other historical stories, figures,
things like that, and turn those into,
829
,160 --> 00:40:26,670
uh, be it a television or film project,
or is this kind of like, okay, this
830
,680 --> 00:40:28,400
is your foray into doing this done?
831
,510 --> 00:40:29,090
Stuart Zicherman: No, no.
832
,090 --> 00:40:31,070
I've always been really
interested in true stories.
833
,099 --> 00:40:34,860
Um, and I've always been interested
in sort of like even historical fear.
834
,860 --> 00:40:38,690
I mean, um, I made a
pilot about 10 years ago.
835
,690 --> 00:40:40,640
That's still one of my favorite
things I ever worked on.
836
,020 --> 00:40:43,800
Um, it didn't get picked up
the series, but I made a pilot.
837
,330 --> 00:40:46,570
about Casanova, the real Casanova.
838
,050 --> 00:40:51,120
Um, you know, I've done this incredibly
bizarre and interesting part of his life
839
,150 --> 00:40:55,339
that I didn't know about the people that
know about and wrote a show about that.
840
,360 --> 00:41:01,500
You know, um, I recently worked
on a project, um, about Um, a
841
,500 --> 00:41:05,110
referee, like, you know, they got
caught up in a gambling scandal.
842
,110 --> 00:41:09,230
I, I, you know, I worked on the shrink
next door, which was a true story.
843
,330 --> 00:41:12,809
They're challenging, but I do enjoy
bringing true stories to life.
844
,190 --> 00:41:16,120
Marc Preston: Kind of next on your,
I don't see next on your agenda,
845
,159 --> 00:41:19,299
but what things are you kind of,
uh, cooking up in the kitchen right
846
,299 --> 00:41:22,110
now that you feel like, you know,
the next, the next thing for you?
847
,450 --> 00:41:24,910
Stuart Zicherman: Um, I am
working on, I just wrote a legal
848
,910 --> 00:41:26,340
show, my first ever legal show.
849
,410 --> 00:41:27,550
I've never done that before.
850
,040 --> 00:41:31,410
So I'm excited about that.
851
,410 --> 00:41:36,650
Now I'm working on a really cool
show based on a book, um, that a
852
,650 --> 00:41:39,080
journalist wrote, um, called spooked.
853
,585 --> 00:41:44,075
Which is set in the world of private
espionage, the corporate espionage.
854
,575 --> 00:41:46,265
Marc Preston: Um, well,
that's interesting.
855
,265 --> 00:41:46,765
Yeah.
856
,765 --> 00:41:50,015
Especially like the tech world
that like, because you got to
857
,015 --> 00:41:51,055
know a lot of that's going on.
858
,055 --> 00:41:51,255
Yeah,
859
,255 --> 00:41:52,755
Stuart Zicherman: no, I
mean, and it's interesting.
860
,755 --> 00:41:56,954
The book is kind of like set in
and around the 2016 election.
861
,394 --> 00:41:57,635
It's funny.
862
,635 --> 00:41:58,704
You brought up James Comey.
863
,705 --> 00:42:03,575
Like, uh, he's, he's in that story, you
know, um, just all this sort of like.
864
,185 --> 00:42:09,935
Private spies that were being hired to
dig up and disseminate information around
865
,935 --> 00:42:17,655
the 2016 election kind of started a new
era of, of, um, spying where anyone, you
866
,655 --> 00:42:19,484
know, you have to be a spy to go into it.
867
,535 --> 00:42:20,325
You know, you could be a
868
,805 --> 00:42:21,004
Marc Preston: former
869
,004 --> 00:42:22,634
Stuart Zicherman: journalist
or a former anything.
870
,990 --> 00:42:26,280
Um, and it's kind of the wild west
now where, you know, in a world
871
,280 --> 00:42:32,150
where information is power, you know,
disseminating information, um, is
872
,150 --> 00:42:36,109
never, you know, and, and creating the
narrative has never been more important.
873
,570 --> 00:42:41,920
Um, so yeah, I'm doing a show, um,
actually with my old, uh, Uh, well
874
,920 --> 00:42:46,020
pal Matthew Reese from the Americans,
um, that's set in that world.
875
,470 --> 00:42:48,340
Marc Preston: You know, that's
one show that is on my list.
876
,340 --> 00:42:49,010
I call it my list.
877
,020 --> 00:42:53,189
The things that with a plethora of
great stuff out there, uh, I still
878
,189 --> 00:42:56,260
haven't had a chance to watch a
lot of stuff, but the Americans is
879
,260 --> 00:42:58,699
on the list, uh, without a doubt.
880
,700 --> 00:42:59,440
Oh, absolutely.
881
,789 --> 00:43:00,970
I haven't watched game of thrones.
882
,010 --> 00:43:03,530
I still, there's things I'd want
to watch, but there's so, you know,
883
,660 --> 00:43:06,130
plus I will say I have a three.
884
,130 --> 00:43:09,350
Well, there are two of them are
teenagers and we're got 20, One 20
885
,350 --> 00:43:13,520
and almost 19 year old, our TV diet
was based upon things like, uh, we
886
,530 --> 00:43:17,850
power watch during COVID lost things
that my kids were really into.
887
,850 --> 00:43:19,320
And it's kind of my time.
888
,320 --> 00:43:21,080
Now my kids are out there in college.
889
,100 --> 00:43:23,639
Now it's my time to catch up
on things like the Americans.
890
Personal Reflections and Preferences
,639 --> 00:43:25,009
And, uh, but what are you watching?
891
,009 --> 00:43:25,139
Right.
892
,140 --> 00:43:27,580
And what, what are the, what are, who
are the writers and what are the projects
893
,580 --> 00:43:29,690
right now that, that grab your attention?
894
,790 --> 00:43:31,750
Who are you enjoying watching right now?
895
,850 --> 00:43:35,820
Stuart Zicherman: Um, I'm enjoying,
um, I'm really enjoying this flavor.
896
,050 --> 00:43:38,930
I'm enjoying, like everybody else,
I'm enjoying Nobody Wants This.
897
,190 --> 00:43:41,360
You know, I think it's, it's
great that the romantic comedy
898
,360 --> 00:43:43,100
genre is coming back to TV.
899
,530 --> 00:43:47,599
I'm also enjoying, I have a 12
year old son and I'm in the process
900
,599 --> 00:43:49,370
of showing him all the movies.
901
,760 --> 00:43:53,560
That I loved throughout my life,
you know, so I'm, I'm having the
902
,560 --> 00:43:55,480
best time showing him this weekend.
903
,480 --> 00:43:56,890
We watched stand by me.
904
,050 --> 00:43:57,260
Marc Preston: Yeah.
905
,290 --> 00:43:58,450
I said something the other day.
906
,450 --> 00:44:00,959
It's like, uh, one of my kids
is off the cuff to sit out.
907
,959 --> 00:44:01,329
Captain.
908
,330 --> 00:44:03,010
My captain is like, Holy shit.
909
,010 --> 00:44:05,219
They still haven't seen dead poet society.
910
,690 --> 00:44:05,999
Got it.
911
,999 --> 00:44:08,730
I mean, that's just like, you
have to, you know, school ties.
912
,780 --> 00:44:11,650
That's another one is, you know, as a
Jewish kid, you know, that was such a,
913
,785 --> 00:44:15,795
It kind of goes back to that, that thing
when you were talking about what, what
914
,795 --> 00:44:18,635
college, what you thought college would
be, or like the private school, you
915
,635 --> 00:44:22,785
know, these, you know, there, there's
a library out there and I'm, my, my
916
,785 --> 00:44:24,284
kids are down for checking stuff out.
917
,385 --> 00:44:27,835
Stuart Zicherman: After you, um, you
know, after having spent the last 25
918
,835 --> 00:44:32,475
years writing movies and shows and to go
back and watch the things that inspired
919
,475 --> 00:44:35,775
you, but you didn't know anything about
business, like watching stand by me.
920
,775 --> 00:44:39,895
I mean, it's a, Well, I mean as a writer
I can literally sit and watch it and
921
,895 --> 00:44:45,335
say there's a flawless script It is a
perfect movie and like it gets to the
922
,335 --> 00:44:49,365
end and I just in tears my eyes Like I
couldn't believe I looked over at my son.
923
,774 --> 00:44:50,795
He was like, yeah, that's good.
924
,825 --> 00:44:53,415
I'm like, no, dude, that's great
925
,935 --> 00:44:58,185
Marc Preston: And Reiner his ability
to direct, you know to put that
926
,185 --> 00:45:01,115
together with you think of all the
genres that he's played Played with,
927
,145 --> 00:45:02,745
you know, like romantic comedy.
928
,885 --> 00:45:12,115
We'll tell you before we get going,
I always kind of throw something out.
929
The Seven Questions
,155 --> 00:45:13,415
I call my seven questions.
930
,415 --> 00:45:16,055
It's a little extra fun
on the back end of a chat.
931
,425 --> 00:45:17,275
A Jewish kid.
932
,275 --> 00:45:18,375
I got to ask this question.
933
,534 --> 00:45:20,754
Uh, what is your favorite comfort food?
934
,874 --> 00:45:22,734
Stuart Zicherman: Favorite comfort food?
935
,735 --> 00:45:27,175
Um, it's not that unique.
936
,225 --> 00:45:28,355
I love French fries.
937
,405 --> 00:45:30,075
I will eat any kind of French fry.
938
,115 --> 00:45:32,875
I love French fries, especially
like diner French fries.
939
,875 --> 00:45:33,535
I think the really thick.
940
,910 --> 00:45:35,250
Marc Preston: Yeah, yeah,
941
,250 --> 00:45:40,074
Stuart Zicherman: yeah.
942
,445 --> 00:45:41,705
Potato cut French fries.
943
,715 --> 00:45:43,185
That's like, that's overdoing it.
944
,275 --> 00:45:48,045
But like the thick, like New York
diner, Greek diner French fries.
945
,215 --> 00:45:52,414
I've convinced myself that, um,
since potatoes are kind of vegetables
946
,674 --> 00:45:55,644
that it's kind of, it, it can't
be that unhealthy French fries.
947
,930 --> 00:45:57,240
Marc Preston: You and I
went to the same school.
948
,270 --> 00:45:57,520
Yeah.
949
,520 --> 00:45:57,810
Okay.
950
,850 --> 00:45:59,050
They were, they were
going to sound like that.
951
,310 --> 00:46:01,600
I like that thought, but your second
person had mentioned French fries.
952
,770 --> 00:46:04,490
Just, uh, I can't remember
who it was said it before.
953
,490 --> 00:46:06,520
I'm like, you know, when they're
good, but when they're bad, when
954
,520 --> 00:46:08,990
they're not good French fries,
it's a whole different thing.
955
,030 --> 00:46:10,400
It's like this floppy.
956
,410 --> 00:46:10,790
Yeah.
957
,839 --> 00:46:11,169
Yeah.
958
,600 --> 00:46:12,970
Um, next question.
959
,970 --> 00:46:16,479
If you're going to sit down, three
people, uh, talk story for a few hours,
960
,849 --> 00:46:20,720
uh, living or not, who would you like
to sit down with three people to, to
961
,730 --> 00:46:22,319
have some coffee and just talk with?
962
,650 --> 00:46:23,290
Stuart Zicherman: Oh, man.
963
,690 --> 00:46:25,140
Man, that's a great one.
964
,530 --> 00:46:29,510
Um, uh, William Goldman for sure.
965
,510 --> 00:46:32,160
I, I, I am a gigantic William Goldman fan.
966
,460 --> 00:46:39,689
Um, um, I would love to sit down like,
like with one of the great Beatnik, um,
967
,720 --> 00:46:43,780
musicians, you know, like I, I'd love
to say Bob Dylan, but I think he would
968
,800 --> 00:46:46,340
be kind of obscure and weird to talk to.
969
,340 --> 00:46:51,870
So I'm going to say like, Someone like
Phil Oakes, um, or someone, um, or
970
,870 --> 00:46:56,220
even like a Harry cheap, like someone's
like a great musical storyteller.
971
,260 --> 00:47:00,840
Um, I love, I love music and I love the
way that stories are told through music.
972
,420 --> 00:47:01,660
Yeah.
973
,660 --> 00:47:06,679
And whoever kind of wrote the Bible,
I've been, I've been going to Torah
974
,690 --> 00:47:11,430
study recently, you'll appreciate this
and just, you know, the rabbi continues
975
,430 --> 00:47:16,890
to like, sort of like really, really,
um, Hit hard, uh, the narrative of
976
,890 --> 00:47:20,230
the Bible and how it, like who it
was written by when it was written.
977
,230 --> 00:47:22,800
And I'm always like,
it's just a great story.
978
,810 --> 00:47:24,840
A lot of crazy
979
,840 --> 00:47:26,060
Marc Preston: storytelling in the Bible.
980
,320 --> 00:47:29,540
To be able to get in discussions with
people about their interpretation,
981
,550 --> 00:47:32,990
why, why they think it was, you know,
you know, they kind of break it down
982
,019 --> 00:47:36,910
almost not as much of as a theological,
but more of a historical text.
983
,910 --> 00:47:38,410
What did it say to the people of the time?
984
,710 --> 00:47:41,240
You know, that, that does
seem really intriguing to me.
985
,359 --> 00:47:42,380
Stuart Zicherman: I would just
love to know, like whoever wrote
986
,640 --> 00:47:46,255
the Bible, did they know that this
many people were going Watch it.
987
,525 --> 00:47:50,335
Marc Preston: This many
stories and interpretations
988
,335 --> 00:47:52,225
and, you know, and holidays.
989
,265 --> 00:47:52,525
Yeah.
990
,835 --> 00:47:56,064
Um, now if we're going to go back
when you were a kid, uh, you know,
991
,065 --> 00:48:00,635
watching movies, TV, who was your
first celebrity crush as a kid?
992
,255 --> 00:48:02,684
Stuart Zicherman: I mean, celebrity crush.
993
,324 --> 00:48:06,494
Well, I mean, I loved all the
Charlie's angels, all three of them.
994
,495 --> 00:48:08,155
And I love them for different reasons.
995
,575 --> 00:48:14,555
Um, but I'd have to say, Um,
Julie from the love boat was
996
,565 --> 00:48:16,835
like my, she was my crush.
997
,115 --> 00:48:18,395
She was so helpful.
998
,655 --> 00:48:20,455
She always made people's problems go away.
999
,905 --> 00:48:22,955
Marc Preston: Zipping around, but
with a little clipboard, you know,
Speaker:1000
,985 --> 00:48:23,785
she always had something going.
Speaker:1001
,835 --> 00:48:24,055
Yeah.
Speaker:1002
,155 --> 00:48:24,304
Just
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,304 --> 00:48:25,514
Stuart Zicherman: always make
people's problems go away.
Speaker:1004
,514 --> 00:48:30,165
She never like complained and, and,
um, she always like, you know, kind of
Speaker:1005
,185 --> 00:48:31,855
stupid men running around, around her.
Speaker:1006
,855 --> 00:48:32,225
And she just.
Speaker:1007
,830 --> 00:48:37,070
It seemed to be in charge and, um,
she's so pretty and it's like Julie.
Speaker:1008
,130 --> 00:48:37,480
Yeah.
Speaker:1009
,730 --> 00:48:38,140
Marc Preston: Very good.
Speaker:1010
,190 --> 00:48:39,040
I'm I'm there with you.
Speaker:1011
,130 --> 00:48:40,080
We talked about music.
Speaker:1012
,080 --> 00:48:43,230
Let's say going to be living on an exotic
Island, somewhere you really want to be.
Speaker:1013
,230 --> 00:48:45,419
It's going to be a nice resort,
but no streaming, no internet.
Speaker:1014
,419 --> 00:48:49,270
So if you want to listen to some music,
you're going to be there for a full year.
Speaker:1015
,339 --> 00:48:53,120
You need to bring a DVD for
a movie and a CD, an album.
Speaker:1016
,120 --> 00:48:56,950
It can be a box set even, but that's
all you have to listen to and watch.
Speaker:1017
,980 --> 00:49:00,340
What would that DVD and what would that
CD be for that full year on that Island?
Speaker:1018
,615 --> 00:49:02,235
Stuart Zicherman: Well, I was
thinking about this recently because
Speaker:1019
,235 --> 00:49:10,035
I rewatched, um, uh, that two part
Scorsese documentary about Bob Dylan,
Speaker:1020
,544 --> 00:49:14,874
um, that had the two parts that were
like, you know, Dylan pre electric and
Speaker:1021
,874 --> 00:49:21,405
then Dylan post electric and, um, and,
and, um, I love it about the history of
Speaker:1022
,615 --> 00:49:25,335
folk music and then, um, sort of like
the way he hooked up with the band.
Speaker:1023
,785 --> 00:49:30,065
Um, and then have the band, the
tour of Europe and, and, you know,
Speaker:1024
,575 --> 00:49:32,205
all the relationships in the movie.
Speaker:1025
,205 --> 00:49:37,935
And, and, um, it's a great movie,
like a great dramatic thrust and
Speaker:1026
,935 --> 00:49:39,745
also just the most incredible music.
Speaker:1027
,384 --> 00:49:41,265
So that was a great one.
Speaker:1028
,265 --> 00:49:44,945
I think it's called don't look back,
but that was, that's a great one.
Speaker:1029
,215 --> 00:49:46,485
I'm still really like lately.
Speaker:1030
,485 --> 00:49:50,080
Like Really falling back in love
with, um, Pink Floyd albums.
Speaker:1031
,590 --> 00:49:56,619
Um, because they are just so
rich and, um, I can listen to
Speaker:1032
,620 --> 00:50:00,029
them over and over and constantly
finding different things in them
Speaker:1033
,689 --> 00:50:03,700
Marc Preston: and get a good box set
of them, uh, Pink Floyd and bring that
Speaker:1034
,700 --> 00:50:07,720
with you now, last couple of questions
here, if you were to say from the time
Speaker:1035
,720 --> 00:50:10,490
you get up in the morning till the
time you go to bed, the component parts
Speaker:1036
,500 --> 00:50:14,350
of a perfect day for you, what would
those component parts of perfect day
Speaker:1037
,350 --> 00:50:17,880
be to say this day was perfect for me.
Speaker:1038
,860 --> 00:50:19,250
Stuart Zicherman: Oh man.
Speaker:1039
,250 --> 00:50:22,370
Well, it would start with like
my kids, you know, being really
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,370 --> 00:50:23,360
nice to me in the morning.
Speaker:1041
,950 --> 00:50:28,340
. Um, uh, it would start
with some kind of exercise.
Speaker:1042
,580 --> 00:50:32,420
Um, I'd like to do a little bit
of writing, but not that much.
Speaker:1043
,570 --> 00:50:36,460
Uh, 'cause you know, two or three hours
is usually my sweet spot and I'd like
Speaker:1044
,460 --> 00:50:37,660
to spend the rest of the day fishing.
Speaker:1045
,660 --> 00:50:38,890
I really like fishing.
Speaker:1046
,985 --> 00:50:39,405
Really?
Speaker:1047
,515 --> 00:50:39,805
Okay.
Speaker:1048
,080 --> 00:50:41,500
? Yeah.
Speaker:1049
,835 --> 00:50:47,685
Um, I like fly fishing and I, uh,
like being on a river or, uh, piece
Speaker:1050
,685 --> 00:50:52,095
of water, uh, with my fly rod,
maybe in a kayak and, uh, yeah.
Speaker:1051
,255 --> 00:50:52,855
Marc Preston: Very cool.
Speaker:1052
,865 --> 00:50:53,465
Very cool.
Speaker:1053
,085 --> 00:50:57,585
Now, if somebody said, listen, you
can't do this for a living, this is
Speaker:1054
,585 --> 00:50:59,945
not something that's going to be able
to put a roof over your head anymore.
Speaker:1055
,965 --> 00:51:01,865
What would then be your next choice?
Speaker:1056
,885 --> 00:51:03,475
What would you be doing besides this?
Speaker:1057
,755 --> 00:51:08,495
Stuart Zicherman: Um, I would love to
have studied or be studying anthropology.
Speaker:1058
,090 --> 00:51:12,660
Uh, be teaching anthropology or, or being
out in the world, doing whatever, like
Speaker:1059
,660 --> 00:51:14,180
someone who is an anthropologist does.
Speaker:1060
,190 --> 00:51:16,300
Although I rarely see them
do anything but teach.
Speaker:1061
,630 --> 00:51:21,360
Um, but like, I just love, I love travel
and I love people and the study of people.
Speaker:1062
,360 --> 00:51:26,359
And, um, uh, so I would like to, I
would love to be an anthropologist.
Speaker:1063
,195 --> 00:51:30,625
Marc Preston: Yeah, to me, uh, like
Anthony Bourdain was sort of a quasi
Speaker:1064
,855 --> 00:51:34,075
anthropology, you know, be able to
travel and eat that, that to me would
Speaker:1065
,145 --> 00:51:36,384
be like, why does this culture do this?
Speaker:1066
,384 --> 00:51:38,555
This completely submit to
whatever culture you're in.
Speaker:1067
,735 --> 00:51:39,374
That would be right.
Speaker:1068
,575 --> 00:51:41,935
Stuart Zicherman: But I really
like, I really like I'm the opposite
Speaker:1069
,935 --> 00:51:45,395
of like whatever colonialist
was like, I love going places.
Speaker:1070
,685 --> 00:51:48,435
And like sinking into the
culture and whatever they do.
Speaker:1071
,055 --> 00:51:51,435
Um, and just pretending I'm not me.
Speaker:1072
,505 --> 00:51:53,945
Um, yeah, I would love that.
Speaker:1073
,605 --> 00:51:55,035
Marc Preston: Very cool.
Speaker:1074
,045 --> 00:51:57,735
Well, the last question I got for
you, let's say you got that DeLorean.
Speaker:1075
,745 --> 00:51:59,924
You can travel back to
when you were 16 years old.
Speaker:1076
,924 --> 00:52:02,624
You got a piece of advice
to make in that moment.
Speaker:1077
,624 --> 00:52:06,445
You're in, make that moment a little
bit better, easier, whatever, or maybe
Speaker:1078
,445 --> 00:52:07,665
put you on a little bit different path.
Speaker:1079
,685 --> 00:52:10,175
What would that advice
to 16 year old you be?
Speaker:1080
,905 --> 00:52:13,315
Stuart Zicherman: Oh man, just be patient.
Speaker:1081
,565 --> 00:52:18,175
You know, like, I mean, so much like
growing up and being hungry for things
Speaker:1082
,175 --> 00:52:23,235
and wanting to, you know, like I wanted
to travel and meet people and learn
Speaker:1083
,235 --> 00:52:27,595
things and go places and be a Hollywood
writer and I wanted to do so many
Speaker:1084
,615 --> 00:52:33,670
things and you, and, um, slowing down
to like, you know, Because once you
Speaker:1085
,790 --> 00:52:37,240
start to like do those things right,
you can't go back to not having them.
Speaker:1086
,570 --> 00:52:38,110
And it's like, yeah.
Speaker:1087
,200 --> 00:52:40,840
Marc Preston: You know, just the, well,
isn't that part of our Jewish DNA where
Speaker:1088
,840 --> 00:52:42,850
you kind of fuss over like, I wanna
make sure I'm doing the right thing.
Speaker:1089
,850 --> 00:52:42,851
Yeah.
Speaker:1090
,856 --> 00:52:43,480
Am I doing the thing?
Speaker:1091
,480 --> 00:52:44,560
Am I doing, you know, it's
Speaker:1092
,765 --> 00:52:47,020
Stuart Zicherman: no, that's exact
that, that's a better way to put it.
Speaker:1093
,020 --> 00:52:48,280
It's like there is no right thing.
Speaker:1094
,520 --> 00:52:51,100
Like you're gonna, yeah,
you're gonna go the wrong way.
Speaker:1095
,370 --> 00:52:52,360
You're gonna make mistakes.
Speaker:1096
,360 --> 00:52:54,430
You're gonna like, it's
all part of the journey.
Speaker:1097
,790 --> 00:53:00,090
Yeah, I just, I, but I think that is just
such an intrinsic part of youth, you know?
Speaker:1098
,360 --> 00:53:01,990
Marc Preston: Yeah, if you're not,
if you're afraid of messing up,
Speaker:1099
,990 --> 00:53:02,820
you're not playing the game right.
Speaker:1100
,140 --> 00:53:05,339
You know, I think you gotta, you
gotta make mistakes, fall on your
Speaker:1101
,339 --> 00:53:06,840
face, learn some things, you know?
Speaker:1102
,910 --> 00:53:09,829
Well, my friend, I, I really enjoyed the,
the, the opportunity to sit down with you.
Speaker:1103
,829 --> 00:53:10,479
It's such a pleasure.
Speaker:1104
,480 --> 00:53:11,860
I appreciate you sharing
your time with me.
Speaker:1105
,860 --> 00:53:15,619
You're obviously a busy, busy guy and,
uh, hopefully, uh, we'll have a chance
Speaker:1106
,619 --> 00:53:16,689
to catch up down the line, my friend.
Speaker:1107
,950 --> 00:53:18,260
Stuart Zicherman: I really
appreciate you having me.
Speaker:1108
,260 --> 00:53:18,820
I really do.
Speaker:1109
,785 --> 00:53:23,045
Marc Preston: All right, there
you go, Stuart Zicherman.
Speaker:1110
,395 --> 00:53:28,325
A talented guy making all kinds
of TV, film, just a cool creative.
Speaker:1111
,605 --> 00:53:31,474
It's kind of cool to sit down and
talk to the folks who are behind
Speaker:1112
,474 --> 00:53:33,545
the camera on the creative side.
Speaker:1113
,735 --> 00:53:36,784
Now, I'm going to go and jump on
out of here because as I take a
Speaker:1114
,784 --> 00:53:41,075
peek behind me, I'm seeing Ranger,
our golden retriever puppy.
Speaker:1115
,075 --> 00:53:45,000
I say puppy, he's like, He's like, Eight
months old now, uh, somebody's mowing the
Speaker:1116
,000 --> 00:53:48,850
yard outside and he is deeply intrigued
and wants to go out and see what's up.
Speaker:1117
,850 --> 00:53:51,680
So I'm going to take him out,
but, uh, before I get going, I
Speaker:1118
,680 --> 00:53:56,439
want to remind you, please go to
story and craft pod slash rate.
Speaker:1119
,459 --> 00:53:58,600
Once again, story and craft pod.
Speaker:1120
,180 --> 00:54:02,750
com slash rate, uh, give you
an opportunity to drop a little
Speaker:1121
,750 --> 00:54:04,270
review, if you will, of the show.
Speaker:1122
,450 --> 00:54:08,030
I greatly appreciate those
drop some stars as well.
Speaker:1123
,060 --> 00:54:09,490
I mean stars are great.
Speaker:1124
,530 --> 00:54:13,540
I mean, it's kind of it's kind of
podcaster fuel You know, it's a way
Speaker:1125
,540 --> 00:54:17,120
to kind of throw a little bit of love
our way Also, make sure to follow the
Speaker:1126
,120 --> 00:54:20,789
show, uh, you get notified every time
there's a new episode if you follow So
Speaker:1127
,789 --> 00:54:24,159
please do if you would uh now i'm gonna
go jump on out of here as I mentioned
Speaker:1128
,170 --> 00:54:26,930
because the pooch Well, it's patrol time.
Speaker:1129
,020 --> 00:54:30,810
We got to get on out I'm going to be back
soon with another episode, so I'm going
Speaker:1130
,810 --> 00:54:34,820
to talk to you then, and I want to thank
you again for making what I got going
Speaker:1131
,820 --> 00:54:36,840
on part of whatever you've got going on.
Speaker:1132
,050 --> 00:54:41,560
So enjoy the rest of your day, or
evening, or whatever you have going on.
Speaker:1133
,729 --> 00:54:44,550
I'll catch you next time,
right here on Story Craft.
Speaker:1134
,550 --> 00:54:47,160
Announcer: That's it for
this episode of Story Craft.
Speaker:1135
,390 --> 00:54:51,770
Join Marc next week for more
conversation, right here on Story Craft.
Speaker:1136
,220 --> 00:54:56,090
Story Craft is a presentation of
Marc Preston Productions, LLC.
Speaker:1137
,075 --> 00:54:59,425
Executive producer is Marc Preston.
Speaker:1138
,805 --> 00:55:02,235
Associate producer is Zachary Holden.
Speaker:1139
,595 --> 00:55:05,904
Please rate and review Story
Craft on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker:1140
,175 --> 00:55:10,614
Don't forget to subscribe to the
show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
Speaker:1141
,615 --> 00:55:12,045
or your favorite podcast app.
Speaker:1142
,305 --> 00:55:15,234
You can subscribe to show
updates and stay in the know.
Speaker:1143
,394 --> 00:55:17,655
Just head to storyandcraftpod.
Speaker:1144
,705 --> 00:55:19,515
com and sign up for the newsletter.
Speaker:1145
,095 --> 00:55:20,835
I'm Emma Dylan.
Speaker:1146
,545 --> 00:55:22,205
See you next time.
Speaker:1147
,375 --> 00:55:24,785
And remember, keep telling your story.
Speaker:1148
,510 --> 00:55:26,450
You
Stuart Zicherman
Showrunner | Executive Producer | Writer | Director
Stuart Zicherman is a New York based filmmaker and showrunner who has written, directed or produced on acclaimed television series such as FX’s THE AMERICANS, Showtime’s THE AFFAIR, the Starz adaptation of the acclaimed novel SWEETBITTER and Apple’s THE SHRINK NEXT DOOR, starring Will Ferrell and Paul Rudd. His most recent show is FX's "AMERICAN SPORTS STORY: AARON HERNANDEZ," based on the podcast "GLADIATOR" from the Boston Globe Spotlight Team and Wondery.
On the feature film side, Stu is adapting the hit French comedy MAMAN AU PAPA for Netflix. It is set to star Jennifer Aniston and Jason Bateman. His feature directing debut came at the 2013 Sundance Film Festival with the comedy “A.C.O.D.” It stands for Adult Children of Divorce and stars Adam Scott, Richard Jenkins, Catherine O’Hara, Amy Poelher and Jane Lynch. His documentary experience includes directing an ESPN 30-for-30 called “The Great Trade Robbery.”